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Fighters will try to hide broken arms and try to continue the fight.

by acover 2y ago

hinkley 2y ago
Adrenaline makes you stupid. And fighters may be using PEDs that make them even dumber. We didn’t catch Lance Armstrong using PEDs for something like eight years.
- freedomben 2y ago
  Adrenaline does make you stupid, but years of training makes you smart. The reason you train so intensively is that when the adrenaline is up you will fall back to muscle memory. They're not being stupid by continuing the fight and trying to hide injuries. They are trying to get a w instead of an l, and sometimes that just means you need to keep the fight going another minute or two until the time is up. That can literally mean the difference between having a successful career and retiring with a mediocre record. It can be the difference between a shot at the world title, versus being on the free undercard fights. Fights. They are making a calculation, and probably the same one I would make in their same situation. It is very easy to look back on the reckless youth as being stupid. Fortunately, I have enough recording of myself from that era to see that I actually had thought it through pretty well, I just didn't realize how bad it could be in the future. But, if I had a world title under my belt, none of my current maladies would feel nearly as bad :-D
  - hinkley 2y ago
    We train the fighters to go until the ref tells you to stop, for similar reasons to what you already illustrated. Which is why I blame the refs and the committee. They know exactly what goes through your head when you’re in a fight and it’s their job to keep your opponent relatively safe. And they aren’t, which is why I don’t watch. But wanting to continue when even your coach knows it’s over is a kind of pressure sale situation. You’re in the moment and sort of trapped, and having a concussion and a brain full of adrenaline makes you have even worse judgement.
    - freedomben 2y ago
      Agreed. I blame the committee, only partially the refs since the refs aren't makign the rules. To be clear my disagreement was with the parent that said adrenaline made the fighters stupid.
  - thefaux 2y ago
    What is the deeper meaning of being a world champion fighter? I pursued a risky sport for many years myself until I was struck by the utter hollowness of it. How would my winning benefit anyone besides me? What was the purpose beyond self exaltation? How was this the best use of my short time on earth? For me, I can hardly think of a worse use of a life than fighting for sport. There is not a single fighter on earth I would trade places with. Not one.
    - DiggyJohnson 2y ago
      What sport? Simply asking out of curiosity?
    - shrimp_emoji 2y ago
      *As Saladin* Nothing... Everything. What's the deeper meaning of getting heart disease and myopia by sitting at a computer learning how to be a good programmer? What's the deeper meaning of doing anything? It's all temporary vanity. In a million years, even the Pyramids will have worn away! It's all ships in bottles to keep us busily interested til we die. :D
      - NoGravitas 2y ago
        Vanity of vanities, says the Preacher, vanity of vanities! All is vanity. What does man gain by all the toil at which he toils under the sun? A generation goes, and a generation comes, but the earth remains forever. All things are full of weariness; a man cannot utter it; the eye is not satisfied with seeing, nor the ear filled with hearing. What has been is what will be, and what has been done is what will be done, and there is nothing new under the sun. Is there a thing of which it is said, “See, this is new”? It has been already in the ages before us. There is no remembrance of former things, nor will there be any remembrance of later things yet to be among those who come after.
    - djtango 2y ago
      It's inspiring. When I consider how Naoya Inoue fought 11 rounds with a broken orbital socket I am profoundly inspired by the heart he demonstrated and his will to win - his focus and his skill to change strategy mid fight. It's easy to handwave his ability to fight through pain thanks to adrenaline... until you try it for yourself. It's inspiring to know just how much we can overcome ourselves if we want something enough.
- chrisfosterelli 2y ago
  Obviously PEDs are bad but IMO non-falsifiable accusations about athletes using them are uninteresting. You can always claim (and someone usually is) that an athlete is dirty and just hasn't been caught yet for some reason. Slightly off-topic though; you're acknowledging that they might contribute which isn't unfair here.
  - silverquiet 2y ago
    I assume that all professional athletes are on PEDs of some sort (I read awhile back that essentially all tennis players are on some heart medication that is allowed and they probably don't all have a heard condition). I don't think they care about what is legal, just what is detectible. The incentives are just too big for them to abstain.
    - hinkley 2y ago
      I think there’s a loophole with endurance athletes and asthma medication as well. But I would not immediately think, “mood or judgement altering” there. We are still looking at whether over the counter pain killers are mood altering substances. I’ve seen circumstantial evidence of this in myself. (Though I don’t think I’d want me or a friend to fight on painkillers - reduced coagulation and bruises are no joke).
    - chrisfosterelli 2y ago
      You're maybe thinking of Meldonium, which is banned. The drug was developed in the 1970s and is a very common OTC sale in eastern Europe. It was banned in 2016 when WADA decided it was possible it could be able to act as a performance enhancer. Maria Sharapova, a tennis champion, made the news later that year when she tested positive, and received a two year ban which was later shortened when the court determined she had originally started taking it years ago in good faith on a doctor's recommendation. About two hundred other athletes from eastern Europe across different sports received positive tests shortly after the ban as well, a lot of which were reversed when it turned out they were detecting use from 2015 (it takes months after use for it to stop showing on tests).
- DiggyJohnson 2y ago
  They aren't stupid they're just trying to make a career of it. Even though I think more work needs to be done on this issue, I do understand how things got this way.
- 01HNNWZ0MV43FF 2y ago
  They might also just be trying not to lose their career
- reaperman 2y ago
  Which PEDs make them dumber?
  - hinkley 2y ago
    Anything that affects the adrenals reduces higher order thinking. And steroids make you not only dumber but more violent.
    - reaperman 2y ago
      This is refuted by Chapter 3[0] ("Violence") of the book "Testosterone" by Rebecca M. Jordan-Young and Katrina Karkazis. Scientific American agrees[1] that violence is not correlated with testosterone: > "When aggression is more narrowly defined as simple physical violence, the connection between [testosterone and violence] all but disappears." Another study finds higher testosterone promotes pro-social behavior[2]. Personally I've found that rather than androgens being a mediator of violence, estrogen seems to be a much powerful inhibitor of rage/violence-potential. Low estrogen causes particularly difficult-to-control emotions. Generally when someone is taking high amounts of steroids they are likely also taking anti-estrogens (blocking testosterone's conversion to estradiol). This low estradiol, due to another drug, not steroids seems to be what most often causes violent emotional dysregulation. Generally not testosterone or other androgens without anti-estrogens. Perhaps my TRT is making me extremely dumb though ;-) 0: https://lithub.com/it-turns-out-theres-not-a-lot-of-science-linking-testosterone-to-violence/ https://lithub.com/it-turns-out-theres-not-a-lot-of-science-... 1: https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/strange-but-true-testosterone-alone-doesnt-cause-violence/#:~:text=Indeed%2C%20the%20latest%20research%20about,the%20connection%20all%20but%20disappears https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/strange-but-true-.... 2: https://news.emory.edu/stories/2022/08/esc_testosterone_animal_study_15-08-2022/story.html https://news.emory.edu/stories/2022/08/esc_testosterone_anim...
- Sheeny96 2y ago
  > PEDs that make them even dumber. Tell me that you have no idea about physiology without telling me.

Fighters will try to hide broken arms and try to continue the fight.

by acover 2y ago

Fighters will try to hide broken arms and try to continue the fight.

Adrenaline makes you stupid. And fighters may be using PEDs that make them even dumber. We didn’t catch Lance Armstrong using PEDs for something like eight years.

freedomben 2y ago
Adrenaline does make you stupid, but years of training makes you smart. The reason you train so intensively is that when the adrenaline is up you will fall back to muscle memory. They're not being stupid by continuing the fight and trying to hide injuries. They are trying to get a w instead of an l, and sometimes that just means you need to keep the fight going another minute or two until the time is up. That can literally mean the difference between having a successful career and retiring with a mediocre record. It can be the difference between a shot at the world title, versus being on the free undercard fights. Fights. They are making a calculation, and probably the same one I would make in their same situation. It is very easy to look back on the reckless youth as being stupid. Fortunately, I have enough recording of myself from that era to see that I actually had thought it through pretty well, I just didn't realize how bad it could be in the future. But, if I had a world title under my belt, none of my current maladies would feel nearly as bad :-D
- hinkley 2y ago
  We train the fighters to go until the ref tells you to stop, for similar reasons to what you already illustrated. Which is why I blame the refs and the committee. They know exactly what goes through your head when you’re in a fight and it’s their job to keep your opponent relatively safe. And they aren’t, which is why I don’t watch. But wanting to continue when even your coach knows it’s over is a kind of pressure sale situation. You’re in the moment and sort of trapped, and having a concussion and a brain full of adrenaline makes you have even worse judgement.
  - freedomben 2y ago
    Agreed. I blame the committee, only partially the refs since the refs aren't makign the rules. To be clear my disagreement was with the parent that said adrenaline made the fighters stupid.
- thefaux 2y ago
  What is the deeper meaning of being a world champion fighter? I pursued a risky sport for many years myself until I was struck by the utter hollowness of it. How would my winning benefit anyone besides me? What was the purpose beyond self exaltation? How was this the best use of my short time on earth? For me, I can hardly think of a worse use of a life than fighting for sport. There is not a single fighter on earth I would trade places with. Not one.
  - DiggyJohnson 2y ago
    What sport? Simply asking out of curiosity?
  - shrimp_emoji 2y ago
    *As Saladin* Nothing... Everything. What's the deeper meaning of getting heart disease and myopia by sitting at a computer learning how to be a good programmer? What's the deeper meaning of doing anything? It's all temporary vanity. In a million years, even the Pyramids will have worn away! It's all ships in bottles to keep us busily interested til we die. :D
    - NoGravitas 2y ago
      Vanity of vanities, says the Preacher, vanity of vanities! All is vanity. What does man gain by all the toil at which he toils under the sun? A generation goes, and a generation comes, but the earth remains forever. All things are full of weariness; a man cannot utter it; the eye is not satisfied with seeing, nor the ear filled with hearing. What has been is what will be, and what has been done is what will be done, and there is nothing new under the sun. Is there a thing of which it is said, “See, this is new”? It has been already in the ages before us. There is no remembrance of former things, nor will there be any remembrance of later things yet to be among those who come after.
  - djtango 2y ago
    It's inspiring. When I consider how Naoya Inoue fought 11 rounds with a broken orbital socket I am profoundly inspired by the heart he demonstrated and his will to win - his focus and his skill to change strategy mid fight. It's easy to handwave his ability to fight through pain thanks to adrenaline... until you try it for yourself. It's inspiring to know just how much we can overcome ourselves if we want something enough.
chrisfosterelli 2y ago
Obviously PEDs are bad but IMO non-falsifiable accusations about athletes using them are uninteresting. You can always claim (and someone usually is) that an athlete is dirty and just hasn't been caught yet for some reason. Slightly off-topic though; you're acknowledging that they might contribute which isn't unfair here.
- silverquiet 2y ago
  I assume that all professional athletes are on PEDs of some sort (I read awhile back that essentially all tennis players are on some heart medication that is allowed and they probably don't all have a heard condition). I don't think they care about what is legal, just what is detectible. The incentives are just too big for them to abstain.
  - hinkley 2y ago
    I think there’s a loophole with endurance athletes and asthma medication as well. But I would not immediately think, “mood or judgement altering” there. We are still looking at whether over the counter pain killers are mood altering substances. I’ve seen circumstantial evidence of this in myself. (Though I don’t think I’d want me or a friend to fight on painkillers - reduced coagulation and bruises are no joke).
  - chrisfosterelli 2y ago
    You're maybe thinking of Meldonium, which is banned. The drug was developed in the 1970s and is a very common OTC sale in eastern Europe. It was banned in 2016 when WADA decided it was possible it could be able to act as a performance enhancer. Maria Sharapova, a tennis champion, made the news later that year when she tested positive, and received a two year ban which was later shortened when the court determined she had originally started taking it years ago in good faith on a doctor's recommendation. About two hundred other athletes from eastern Europe across different sports received positive tests shortly after the ban as well, a lot of which were reversed when it turned out they were detecting use from 2015 (it takes months after use for it to stop showing on tests).
DiggyJohnson 2y ago
They aren't stupid they're just trying to make a career of it. Even though I think more work needs to be done on this issue, I do understand how things got this way.
01HNNWZ0MV43FF 2y ago
They might also just be trying not to lose their career
reaperman 2y ago
Which PEDs make them dumber?
- hinkley 2y ago
  Anything that affects the adrenals reduces higher order thinking. And steroids make you not only dumber but more violent.
  - reaperman 2y ago
    This is refuted by Chapter 3[0] ("Violence") of the book "Testosterone" by Rebecca M. Jordan-Young and Katrina Karkazis. Scientific American agrees[1] that violence is not correlated with testosterone: > "When aggression is more narrowly defined as simple physical violence, the connection between [testosterone and violence] all but disappears." Another study finds higher testosterone promotes pro-social behavior[2]. Personally I've found that rather than androgens being a mediator of violence, estrogen seems to be a much powerful inhibitor of rage/violence-potential. Low estrogen causes particularly difficult-to-control emotions. Generally when someone is taking high amounts of steroids they are likely also taking anti-estrogens (blocking testosterone's conversion to estradiol). This low estradiol, due to another drug, not steroids seems to be what most often causes violent emotional dysregulation. Generally not testosterone or other androgens without anti-estrogens. Perhaps my TRT is making me extremely dumb though ;-) 0: https://lithub.com/it-turns-out-theres-not-a-lot-of-science-linking-testosterone-to-violence/ https://lithub.com/it-turns-out-theres-not-a-lot-of-science-... 1: https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/strange-but-true-testosterone-alone-doesnt-cause-violence/#:~:text=Indeed%2C%20the%20latest%20research%20about,the%20connection%20all%20but%20disappears https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/strange-but-true-.... 2: https://news.emory.edu/stories/2022/08/esc_testosterone_animal_study_15-08-2022/story.html https://news.emory.edu/stories/2022/08/esc_testosterone_anim...
Sheeny96 2y ago
> PEDs that make them even dumber. Tell me that you have no idea about physiology without telling me.