3 ms·

It doesn’t have to be a technical ban. Just make it the law and let companies, schools, parents, and kids take their punishment when found to happen. This sho

It doesn’t have to be a technical ban. Just make it the law and let companies, schools, parents, and kids take their punishment when found to happen. This should be enough for the risk averse to take open devices away from children and bolster parents. It’s not important to stop every possible access, simply that adults have the authority to say no and be supported by society instead of undermined.

Aurornis 3y ago
> It doesn’t have to be a technical ban. Just make it the law and let companies, schools, parents, and kids take their punishment when found to happen You’re describing a ban.
- jackbravo 3y ago
  It doesn’t have to be a technological ban. It can be a social ban
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
- mixmastamyk 3y ago
  , without the ID requirements.
agentgumshoe 3y ago
Now, define 'social media' clearly and we're all good.
- ars 3y ago
  Social media has the following elements (which would be prohibited): Recommendation based on previous views. Recommendation based on what is currently being viewed is permitted. Recommendation based on current view that is customized to user is not permitted. Ratings up/down. Sorting based on rating or based on users' interest. Chronological sorting is permitted. Suggesting content is forbidden. Specifically subscribed content is permitted to be suggested - but only chronologically, or in response to a search. No public comments. Private comments permitted. Comments in room/forum/group permitted. User must specifically subscribe/join to see the comments. Comments sorting/notification rules same as above. "Reactions" to messages show up as additional/new replies, and are not attached to the original message. Discussion: The idea is to reduce addictive methods, and to modify discussion/views to reflect ordinary human behavior: No one rates your sentence spoken in a group, no one goes back and promotes certain things you said, words are said in a group chronologically.
  - still_grokking 3y ago
    So you want to ban all kinds of software forges, like for example GitHub? Or other regular coordination platforms for business? I guess the definition of "social media" is not as simple as outlined above.
    - ars 3y ago
      Explain please how my suggestion bans GitHub. GitHub does not show me (on my home page) "recommended" repositories, rather only the ones I specifically searched for, and the information on it is organized in a chronological fashion, which is permitted by my suggestion. Is your issue that I can see public comments regarding the repository? That's permitted - comments on random repositories do not show up on my home page, only if I specifically go to a particular repository, which is effectively joining it for the purposes of what I wrote. (Although I guess that could be clarified.)
      - lurker616 3y ago
        How about Discord? Or reddit? Would those be limited to kids as well? You can be sure that even if FB/Instagram were to ban kids, there would be hundreds of companies jumping in to scoop up all that teenage DAU.
        ars 3y ago
        Yes, reddit would be limited, unless they made a mode that ordered submissions and conversions chronologically and removed all voting. Forums have existed before reddit that didn't have those things, and those forums worked just fine - and continue to work just fine. The way reddit does things is not necessary, they do it to try to make it more addictive, and that's exactly what we are trying to stop. Discord I'm not sure - does it have votes/rating that kind of thing? From what I saw in my limited usage it's pure chronological chat, but I haven't used it much.
        still_grokking 3y ago
- mixmastamyk 3y ago
  I don’t think kids should be on the internet (public WAN) alone at all, so easy for me. They could get larger whitelists over time as they approach 18—no sites where they interact with adults.
  - anthk 3y ago
    So 14 year olds can't learn form old hackers to grow up programming/coding and such? That's really sad.
    - mixmastamyk 3y ago
      Sure they can, in person, school, or with a book. I became a hacker just fine w/o internet as a kid. People did things just fine, just took a bit longer. Thankfully kids have a lot of extra time.
      - anthk 3y ago
        Without a working internet connection, you can simulate network setups, but not the real deal. A teen at SDF could learn much faster with people with wisdom than by themselves. They can be guided in a much easier way. Hint: I didn't got internet at home until very late. And, back in the daw I knew a lot in some areas, such as drivers under GNU/Linux, adapting basic BTTV drivers and so on, but severely lacking in others, because there was no proper information to start with.
        mixmastamyk 3y ago
        I used LANs half a decade before connecting to the wider net. SBCs and VMs are much greater resources than I learned on. Routers are cheap, I just set up a dynalink with openwrt for $75. No one is asking teens to set up a production kube cluster. There’s so much to learn—they’ll be fine.
Buttons840 3y ago
That will look real good, a parent decides certain reading and social activities are okay for their child, and now it's time for the government to punish everyone involved.

Aurornis 3y ago

> It doesn’t have to be a technical ban. Just make it the law and let companies, schools, parents, and kids take their punishment when found to happen You’re describing a ban.

jackbravo 3y ago
It doesn’t have to be a technological ban. It can be a social ban
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
mixmastamyk 3y ago
, without the ID requirements.

agentgumshoe 3y ago

Now, define 'social media' clearly and we're all good.

ars 3y ago
Social media has the following elements (which would be prohibited): Recommendation based on previous views. Recommendation based on what is currently being viewed is permitted. Recommendation based on current view that is customized to user is not permitted. Ratings up/down. Sorting based on rating or based on users' interest. Chronological sorting is permitted. Suggesting content is forbidden. Specifically subscribed content is permitted to be suggested - but only chronologically, or in response to a search. No public comments. Private comments permitted. Comments in room/forum/group permitted. User must specifically subscribe/join to see the comments. Comments sorting/notification rules same as above. "Reactions" to messages show up as additional/new replies, and are not attached to the original message. Discussion: The idea is to reduce addictive methods, and to modify discussion/views to reflect ordinary human behavior: No one rates your sentence spoken in a group, no one goes back and promotes certain things you said, words are said in a group chronologically.
- still_grokking 3y ago
  So you want to ban all kinds of software forges, like for example GitHub? Or other regular coordination platforms for business? I guess the definition of "social media" is not as simple as outlined above.
  - ars 3y ago
    Explain please how my suggestion bans GitHub. GitHub does not show me (on my home page) "recommended" repositories, rather only the ones I specifically searched for, and the information on it is organized in a chronological fashion, which is permitted by my suggestion. Is your issue that I can see public comments regarding the repository? That's permitted - comments on random repositories do not show up on my home page, only if I specifically go to a particular repository, which is effectively joining it for the purposes of what I wrote. (Although I guess that could be clarified.)
    - lurker616 3y ago
      How about Discord? Or reddit? Would those be limited to kids as well? You can be sure that even if FB/Instagram were to ban kids, there would be hundreds of companies jumping in to scoop up all that teenage DAU.
      - ars 3y ago
        Yes, reddit would be limited, unless they made a mode that ordered submissions and conversions chronologically and removed all voting. Forums have existed before reddit that didn't have those things, and those forums worked just fine - and continue to work just fine. The way reddit does things is not necessary, they do it to try to make it more addictive, and that's exactly what we are trying to stop. Discord I'm not sure - does it have votes/rating that kind of thing? From what I saw in my limited usage it's pure chronological chat, but I haven't used it much.
        still_grokking 3y ago
mixmastamyk 3y ago
I don’t think kids should be on the internet (public WAN) alone at all, so easy for me. They could get larger whitelists over time as they approach 18—no sites where they interact with adults.
- anthk 3y ago
  So 14 year olds can't learn form old hackers to grow up programming/coding and such? That's really sad.
  - mixmastamyk 3y ago
    Sure they can, in person, school, or with a book. I became a hacker just fine w/o internet as a kid. People did things just fine, just took a bit longer. Thankfully kids have a lot of extra time.
    - anthk 3y ago
      Without a working internet connection, you can simulate network setups, but not the real deal. A teen at SDF could learn much faster with people with wisdom than by themselves. They can be guided in a much easier way. Hint: I didn't got internet at home until very late. And, back in the daw I knew a lot in some areas, such as drivers under GNU/Linux, adapting basic BTTV drivers and so on, but severely lacking in others, because there was no proper information to start with.
      - mixmastamyk 3y ago
        I used LANs half a decade before connecting to the wider net. SBCs and VMs are much greater resources than I learned on. Routers are cheap, I just set up a dynalink with openwrt for $75. No one is asking teens to set up a production kube cluster. There’s so much to learn—they’ll be fine.

Buttons840 3y ago

That will look real good, a parent decides certain reading and social activities are okay for their child, and now it's time for the government to punish everyone involved.