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I think its interesting when reading The Expanse that its mentioned fundamental technology is advanced by "tech collectives." Like all organization in that scif

I think its interesting when reading The Expanse that its mentioned fundamental technology is advanced by "tech collectives." Like all organization in that scifi, its touched on only briefly, but reading articles like this and the recent Boeing madness makes me think that the future of humanities technologic progress is not something to be left to the marketplace of capital, where people are fungible, because they're not. That to succeed in complex endeavors we need more complex organizations than gov, business, nonprofit. Probably off topic but if you find yourself in some kind of monastic tech co-op that builds things because they are good first and valuable second, hmu.

Arnt 3y ago
There's a nice posting bunniestudios.com about how the city of Shenzhen is such a collective for electronics. There are others. I live in an area with a lot of small companies that build complicated expensive products for small audiences. Want a croissant-baking machine? There's long institutional knowhow here.
- idontwantthis 3y ago
  What would be specialized about baking a croissant? Or do you mean you put in flour and butter and croissants come out? I would pay handsomely for the second.
  - AdamJacobMuller 3y ago
    croissants (and any other delicate pastry) require precise humidity and temperature control for reliable results. Think PID controllers which control the heat/humidity through the baking cycle, or, conveyer-based systems with zones of specific temperature/humidity. In addition, very modern systems, they are using computer vision systems to dynamically analyze the baking to ensure perfect doneness. More repeatable results with less skilled labor is less waste is more profits.
omgJustTest 3y ago
HMU, can't find your contact details ! anucleonfreezer at gmail.com
wkat4242 3y ago
The expanse doesn't really paint a very nice picture of the future of human society though :)
- loeg 3y ago
  It's also, you know, fiction. You can tell because of the wormholes and aliens and magic.
  - wkat4242 3y ago
    Oh yes of course but I don't think it's a coincidence that every Sci-Fi that has enormous megacorporations is also incredibly dystopian. Think also of Blade Runner (it's a core theme in the cyberpunk genre it spawned). And Firefly, probably a lot more. Which Sci-Fi franchise has ultra-powerful corporations and isn't dystopian? Don't forget Sci-Fi is a product of our own civilisation. I think we all know deep down that the current ultracapitalist model will bring us to doom. Because we're already most of the way there. That gets incorporated in to Sci-Fi because people will feel it's more realistic. I always loved the more socialist take of Star Trek (especially TNG). They even did away with the whole concept of money "We work to better ourselves". Pretty revolutionary in the 80s but it feels even more so now.
zer00eyz 3y ago
You should take a look at: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mondragon_Corporation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mondragon_Corporation There is a template for running a business in a new way. Mondragon has sort of reached the limit of what they can do as a single institution. Farmers, have been running coops for a long time. They work and are very effective. Again nothing new here just not in the headlines. I will say that the irony should be lost on no one that rural farmers have a form of working corporate socialism that most urban professionals desire.
Karrot_Kream 3y ago
How? How how how? This silly debate comes up everywhere these days as railing against the current western economic system has come in vogue on the web. But it's not enough to complain, I can fill bookshelves with Reddit comments that do that, we need to imagine solutions! A sibling comment pointed out Mondragon which uses the ParEcon form of economic management which is an actual answer to the question. I'd love to see other answers.
- smallmancontrov 3y ago
  Bog standard industrial protectionism, as used by Alexander Hamilton to industrialize the United States. They don't often mention that part when they talk about trade liberalization, do they? This shit has been understood for centuries, but asset-owners just can't help themselves when they get a chance to pump at the expense of export-makers, even if it's literal communists they are selling us out to. I'd rather not sell out to the literal communists, so let's (continue to) roll back the changes. If we don't do it voluntarily, our hollowed out industrial base will eventually start losing us wars and it will happen involuntarily, with a lot more pain.
  - sobellian 3y ago
    > our hollowed out industrial base will eventually start losing us wars These are not the 1940s, you cannot convert a car plant to produce jet fighters. So the industrial base writ large is irrelevant. If you are really afraid of losing a world war, you are advocating for expanding the MIC specifically. Problem as Eisenhower put it is that you would hang humanity from a cross of iron. MIC spending necessarily crowds out economic activity for civilian benefit. Anyway, our MIC is quite large already.
    - smallmancontrov 3y ago
      > These are not the 1940s, you cannot convert a car plant to produce jet fighters If your understanding of supply chains is so poor that it does not encompass more than a single vertically integrated entity, this deficiency will lead you to catastrophically incorrect conclusions like: > the industrial base writ large is irrelevant This in particular: > If you are really afraid of losing a world war, you are advocating for expanding the MIC specifically is an egregiously inept straw man. Not only are many industrial machines dual use, most are dual use. In fact, I propose a challenge: I'll name an industrial machine that is dual use and you respond with one that isn't. We go back and forth until we have settled the matter. I'll start: plastic injection molding machine

Arnt 3y ago

There's a nice posting bunniestudios.com about how the city of Shenzhen is such a collective for electronics. There are others. I live in an area with a lot of small companies that build complicated expensive products for small audiences. Want a croissant-baking machine? There's long institutional knowhow here.

idontwantthis 3y ago
What would be specialized about baking a croissant? Or do you mean you put in flour and butter and croissants come out? I would pay handsomely for the second.
- AdamJacobMuller 3y ago
  croissants (and any other delicate pastry) require precise humidity and temperature control for reliable results. Think PID controllers which control the heat/humidity through the baking cycle, or, conveyer-based systems with zones of specific temperature/humidity. In addition, very modern systems, they are using computer vision systems to dynamically analyze the baking to ensure perfect doneness. More repeatable results with less skilled labor is less waste is more profits.

omgJustTest 3y ago

HMU, can't find your contact details ! anucleonfreezer at gmail.com

wkat4242 3y ago

The expanse doesn't really paint a very nice picture of the future of human society though :)

loeg 3y ago
It's also, you know, fiction. You can tell because of the wormholes and aliens and magic.
- wkat4242 3y ago
  Oh yes of course but I don't think it's a coincidence that every Sci-Fi that has enormous megacorporations is also incredibly dystopian. Think also of Blade Runner (it's a core theme in the cyberpunk genre it spawned). And Firefly, probably a lot more. Which Sci-Fi franchise has ultra-powerful corporations and isn't dystopian? Don't forget Sci-Fi is a product of our own civilisation. I think we all know deep down that the current ultracapitalist model will bring us to doom. Because we're already most of the way there. That gets incorporated in to Sci-Fi because people will feel it's more realistic. I always loved the more socialist take of Star Trek (especially TNG). They even did away with the whole concept of money "We work to better ourselves". Pretty revolutionary in the 80s but it feels even more so now.

zer00eyz 3y ago

You should take a look at: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mondragon_Corporation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mondragon_Corporation There is a template for running a business in a new way. Mondragon has sort of reached the limit of what they can do as a single institution. Farmers, have been running coops for a long time. They work and are very effective. Again nothing new here just not in the headlines. I will say that the irony should be lost on no one that rural farmers have a form of working corporate socialism that most urban professionals desire.

Karrot_Kream 3y ago

How? How how how? This silly debate comes up everywhere these days as railing against the current western economic system has come in vogue on the web. But it's not enough to complain, I can fill bookshelves with Reddit comments that do that, we need to imagine solutions! A sibling comment pointed out Mondragon which uses the ParEcon form of economic management which is an actual answer to the question. I'd love to see other answers.

smallmancontrov 3y ago
Bog standard industrial protectionism, as used by Alexander Hamilton to industrialize the United States. They don't often mention that part when they talk about trade liberalization, do they? This shit has been understood for centuries, but asset-owners just can't help themselves when they get a chance to pump at the expense of export-makers, even if it's literal communists they are selling us out to. I'd rather not sell out to the literal communists, so let's (continue to) roll back the changes. If we don't do it voluntarily, our hollowed out industrial base will eventually start losing us wars and it will happen involuntarily, with a lot more pain.
- sobellian 3y ago
  > our hollowed out industrial base will eventually start losing us wars These are not the 1940s, you cannot convert a car plant to produce jet fighters. So the industrial base writ large is irrelevant. If you are really afraid of losing a world war, you are advocating for expanding the MIC specifically. Problem as Eisenhower put it is that you would hang humanity from a cross of iron. MIC spending necessarily crowds out economic activity for civilian benefit. Anyway, our MIC is quite large already.
  - smallmancontrov 3y ago
    > These are not the 1940s, you cannot convert a car plant to produce jet fighters If your understanding of supply chains is so poor that it does not encompass more than a single vertically integrated entity, this deficiency will lead you to catastrophically incorrect conclusions like: > the industrial base writ large is irrelevant This in particular: > If you are really afraid of losing a world war, you are advocating for expanding the MIC specifically is an egregiously inept straw man. Not only are many industrial machines dual use, most are dual use. In fact, I propose a challenge: I'll name an industrial machine that is dual use and you respond with one that isn't. We go back and forth until we have settled the matter. I'll start: plastic injection molding machine