7 ms·

Bioluminescent petunias at home

74 points by naltroc 3y ago

naltroc 3y ago
developer's website https://light.bio/ https://light.bio/
- shrx 2y ago
  > Although typically regarded as annuals, petunias can be grown indoors if placed in a sunny spot. That's some weasel wording here. Are they still annuals if they're grown indoors or not?
  - ceejayoz 2y ago
    They're tender perennials. Temps under 40 degrees kill them, so they're functionally annuals in most of the US. I plan to keep mine indoors with grow lights.
  - hansvm 2y ago
    It's a meaningful distinction. Cilantro, by contrast, is a proper annual. It's a nightmare to keep it from going to seed, and it won't survive long after producing seeds. With a lot of work (proper pruning, temperatures, water, light wavelengths, ...) you can keep it alive more than a year, but in the wild it's definitely an annual no matter where you plant it on Earth. Petunias are happy to live multiple years. Like tomatoes [0], they're originally from more tropical areas and are perennials so long as they aren't exposed to frost, against which they have no defenses. In the anglosphere we've borrowed a lot of plants from elsewhere in the world, and in the presence of a proper winter we tend to treat them as annuals instead. [0] https://www.wdwinfo.com/news-stories/tomato-tree-in-epcots-land-pavilion-breaks-world-record/ https://www.wdwinfo.com/news-stories/tomato-tree-in-epcots-l...
  - Modified3019 2y ago
    Annual/perennial isn’t a hard and fast distinction with plants, as it is often condition dependent. In outdoor conditions where freezing occurs (most of the United States), outdoor petunias can be considered annuals as frost or near freezing temperatures will harm them. However they do not die after simply seeding. However petunias moved indoors for the winter will generally survive for multiple years when kept out of cold weather (best to keep them above 50 degrees F). Petunias are in the nightshade family, and behave like you would expect if you have experience with members of the family. At some point an indoor plant may decline or die for a variety of reasons (bacterial and fungal disease buildup can be an issue), however petunias are notable for being very easy to propagate via cuttings, as such they can be kept alive/multiplied indefinitely if you are willing to put in the work and research into how to care for them. It should be noted that light.bio is perfectly fine with personally propagating them if you like, so long as you aren’t selling them: https://old.reddit.com/r/solarpunk/comments/1aw14j3/genetically_engineered_plants_that_glow_in_the/krj8653/?context=3 https://old.reddit.com/r/solarpunk/comments/1aw14j3/genetica...
yvely 3y ago
No EU options? :'(
- clarionbell 2y ago
  Very much illegal in EU. You would be facing anthrax level penalties for importing or growing them.
  - aredox 2y ago
    Imported plants may be out of order because of biosafety and liability laws, but is there a ban anywhere on genetic manipulation of house plants, if done by an EU company?
    - clarionbell 2y ago
      In principle there isn't. But there are laws about introduction of such organisms. So it's fine to do that in a lab. But the moment you put the plant in a pot on your balcony you are in trouble. You need official approval for that. But obtaining it is borderline impossible. Not even the biggest agrotech corporations are trying anymore. There are only a handful of approved organisms, and some countries in EU go even further and ban them as well. So nobody can use them, so nobody will sell them, so nobody will develop them. There is an ongoing effort to bypass these restrictions for CRISPR based technologies. But who knows how effective will that be. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regulation_of_genetic_engineering#European_Union https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regulation_of_genetic_engineer...
      - throw310822 2y ago
        Sometimes I have to agree with Victoria Nuland.
  - randomcarbloke 2y ago
    they'll just seize, destroy, and notify, you'd never even see them.
nomilk 3y ago
> these long exposure photos aren’t quite what the human eye sees; it’s more like green tinted moonlight Awesome that it can be done at all but sounds like the images give an exaggerated impression of the glow.
- nine_k 3y ago
  Human eye accomodates well to darkness. When I enter a dark room from a lit room, I initially can't see anything. But given 60-80 seconds, I become able to clearly see the shapes of furniture around me, and even the pattern on the carpet, even though the room is lit only by a couple of indicator LEDs from a router sitting on the top of a closet. I bet that after a few minutes in a dark room, the petunias will look very visible and detailed. The room has to be dark though; a distant streetlamp through the window would easily overpower a flower.
ed 3y ago
I have these! They really do glow in the dark — but it’s much easier to capture in a photo than see with the naked eye. (Dim) “green tinted moonlight” is a good description of it. Or imagine a barely charged glow in the dark object. Still, cool technology!
- socialentp 3y ago
  Same here! I agree with your description, but my wife and I still absolutely love it. It’s brighter when your eyes have adjusted to the dark for a while too.
- rainbowzootsuit 3y ago
  An astronomy trick is to look away slightly from them since the fovea has no rods your slightly peripheral vision is more light sensitive.
- teekert 2y ago
  Nice remark, and expected. I did some research into this some time ago. We were looking into "bio-light" using luciferase (the mentioned firefly protein). The thing is that that protein emits one photon for 1 ATP (fuel) molecule. The amount of ATP needed to make a 200 lumen plant, is kilograms per day. Completely unfeasible. We concluded that indeed "green tinted moonlight" was about feasible, maybe not even. Seems like now they have a better way, too bad there are no details.
  - dillydogg 2y ago
    They published their strategy. It utilizes the bioluminescence pathway from a fungus that uses caffeic acid to generate light. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7610436/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7610436/
  - ethbr1 2y ago
    Given the human eye's sensitivity, I think it's a good first step. In a dark room with fully-acclimated eyes, they definitely glow. Mine are still perking up from shipping, so we'll see what output they finally achieve, but people forget you can see in a room lit by a single LED. It doesn't take much to be a night-light.
fnordpiglet 3y ago
Mine just arrived today. Haven’t had a chance to see it glow yet. It arrived a little wilted so I’m letting it get some light and rest before becoming a spectacle Edit: couldn’t resist. Took it into a dark room and it indeed glows with an eerie light. Science!
rnhmjoj 2y ago
Does this have anything to do with the company that was promising street lighting with glowing plants in a kickstarter many years ago[1]? I recognized the picture of the glowing tobacco plant. [1]: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/antonyevans/glowing-plants-natural-lighting-with-no-electricit https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/antonyevans/glowing-pla...
- ipsum2 2y ago
  No, completely unrelated company.
- moralestapia 2y ago
  Wow, they pretty much scammed people off half a million, and they got lauded for it. Then, two years later, one of the guys behind the scam off-ed himself. No idea if it was related to it or not, but that's too high of a price to pay for a meager amount of $$$.
aredox 2y ago
This would be awesome as a bedroom night light for kids afraid of the dark!
- Etheryte 2y ago
  This won't be even remotely bright enough to work as a night light. Think worn out and old glow in the dark chewing gum sticker rather than night light.
- pvaldes 2y ago
  "If your children are terrified of the dark, make fun of them with our new ectoplasmic glow in the dark effect. Now shaped as tiny ghostly brides". I would totally buy it.
Modified3019 2y ago
Just got mine in today as well. Initially right out of the box, a few flowers only had the faintest touch of glow once my eyes adjusted to darkness. After some time in sunlight and getting watered, the glowing was a bit better and I could see more of the flowers. Once the sun got lower I put them under some led lighting. At my final check for the day I could start to make out some of the leaves. The glow is still faint and requires adjusting to darkness, but didn’t take nearly as long. As it recovers and starts growing vigorously, I do expect it to improve, though I doubt it will ever be capable of competing with most ambient light from any nearby sources. Basically I got what I was expecting and look forward to them continuing to develop the tech, though I do think the company should be more cautious with their marketing images. I’m well aware of how good cameras are at being ad-hoc nightvision since as an agronomist I sometimes end up still trying to scout things when it’s getting dark, and my pictures still look like near daylight. Other people though may end up a bit too optimistic, and disappointed. Eventually I’ll figure out how to take a picture that reflects what I actually see. I’d love to see this applied to English daisies.
- tokai 2y ago
  Do they smell like normal Petunias?
  - ethbr1 2y ago
    Yup! Floral/sweet, strong but not overpowering.
  - Modified3019 2y ago
    They smell exactly like normal petunias with flowers being floral, and the leaves smelling like a typical nightshade. Immediately out of the shipping box they’ll be a bit rank, which is normal and expected from keeping a nightshade in a box for 3 days. It quickly dissipates.
cannonpr 2y ago
This seems like a horrible idea considering how much plants exchange genes even cross species very easily ? Never mind what effect it might have to night pollinators and other ecosystem effects. I look forward to fast forwarding a few decades where the entire ecosystem is either collapsing or glowing because of N bio engineered species we didn’t properly understand before releasing.
- pennomi 2y ago
  While I suspect that’s possible in theory, I think it’s far more likely that ecosystem collapse comes from something like pesticides or habitat loss than gmo.
- adrianN 2y ago
  Figuring out why glowing gives a species such an advantage that it outcompetes non-glowing competitors would be an interesting post hoc study.
  - lawlessone 2y ago
    Just my opinion but I imagine this burns energy for no benefit. I think the plant released into the wild might survive for a little but eventually that glowing gene would be switched off.
- lawlessone 2y ago
  I think we're safe. If it was advantageous for plants to glow this would probably have already evolved. It already evolved in animals and fungus, microbes etc.
- jasongill 2y ago
  Not that we shouldn't be careful with any new technology, but do keep in mind that humans have been "genetically modifying organisms" for tens of thousands of years - that's how we ended up with many of the plants you see around, all of the food we eat, pets like dogs, etc. The engineering is becoming more exotic, that's for sure, but it's not new by any stretch
kseistrup 2y ago
Will plants grown from seeds taken from these plants become bioluminescent, too?
- ceejayoz 2y ago
  Unclear so far; the company hasn't said. Most petunia hybrids don't breed true. Petunias are readily propagated via cuttings, though.
  - teraflop 2y ago
    Note that the website says: "Our Firefly Petunias are protected under patent, and as such, propagation and breeding are not permitted."
    - yareal 2y ago
      Good luck. Home gardeners, at least, are absolutely going to propagate their own plants. Gift to friends, etc. Sure, this patent nonsense might protect against broad sales but it won't be much use in stopping their spread. And like, if someone plants these outside, you think the bees are checking patents?
      - indigobunting 2y ago
        "you think the bees are checking patents?" Framable
    - ceejayoz 2y ago
      The next line being "These petunias are sold exclusively for personal use." As with copyrighted material, you get in trouble largely on redistribution, especially at large/commercial scale; I'm certain the company will be keeping a close eye on nurseries, eBay, Etsy, etc. Similar tags have been common practice with roses and other patented plants for decades.
    - shellfishgene 2y ago
      From an article that was on the front page a while ago: "When asked whether Light Bio is worried about plant lovers sharing cuttings of the petunia with friends, Sarkisyan says that although the firm owns patents for the technology, it doesn’t plan to crack down aggressively on the behaviour. “The most positive way of dealing with it is to come up with new, better products,” he says."
mhb 2y ago
Maybe I'm the only one who finds it notable that NPR doesn't know that fungi is plural.
seatac76 2y ago
Mine showed up really stressed. Leaves were all crumbly, I had to prune it back to nothing but tender stems, hopefully it survives. So far very little glow. As others have said, it’s easier to see in total darkness or using long exposure and it needs a LOT of Sun.
chasil 2y ago
It is interesting that this effect is not carried by a chromoplast, as fungi don't have plastids. The mechanism for the bioluminescence must reside in some other cellular organelle. However, if the genes are added to plastid DNA instead of the nucleus, then female seeds would have an exact copy of the bioluminescent DNA additions, since only DNA in the nucleus changes at fertilization. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plastid https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plastid
toastedwedge 2y ago
I have to wonder whether in the coming decades we'll have types of nature preserves or botanical amusement parks where you can stroll through entirely bioluminescent fields (small fields!) of trees and shrubs. Not unlike Avatar, but maybe not (yet) so strongly vibrant. :)
- andoando 2y ago
  Get them to react to sound and we'll have raves in an enchanted forest. :}

74 points by naltroc 3y ago

naltroc 3y ago

developer's website https://light.bio/ https://light.bio/

shrx 2y ago
> Although typically regarded as annuals, petunias can be grown indoors if placed in a sunny spot. That's some weasel wording here. Are they still annuals if they're grown indoors or not?
- ceejayoz 2y ago
  They're tender perennials. Temps under 40 degrees kill them, so they're functionally annuals in most of the US. I plan to keep mine indoors with grow lights.
- hansvm 2y ago
  It's a meaningful distinction. Cilantro, by contrast, is a proper annual. It's a nightmare to keep it from going to seed, and it won't survive long after producing seeds. With a lot of work (proper pruning, temperatures, water, light wavelengths, ...) you can keep it alive more than a year, but in the wild it's definitely an annual no matter where you plant it on Earth. Petunias are happy to live multiple years. Like tomatoes [0], they're originally from more tropical areas and are perennials so long as they aren't exposed to frost, against which they have no defenses. In the anglosphere we've borrowed a lot of plants from elsewhere in the world, and in the presence of a proper winter we tend to treat them as annuals instead. [0] https://www.wdwinfo.com/news-stories/tomato-tree-in-epcots-land-pavilion-breaks-world-record/ https://www.wdwinfo.com/news-stories/tomato-tree-in-epcots-l...
- Modified3019 2y ago
  Annual/perennial isn’t a hard and fast distinction with plants, as it is often condition dependent. In outdoor conditions where freezing occurs (most of the United States), outdoor petunias can be considered annuals as frost or near freezing temperatures will harm them. However they do not die after simply seeding. However petunias moved indoors for the winter will generally survive for multiple years when kept out of cold weather (best to keep them above 50 degrees F). Petunias are in the nightshade family, and behave like you would expect if you have experience with members of the family. At some point an indoor plant may decline or die for a variety of reasons (bacterial and fungal disease buildup can be an issue), however petunias are notable for being very easy to propagate via cuttings, as such they can be kept alive/multiplied indefinitely if you are willing to put in the work and research into how to care for them. It should be noted that light.bio is perfectly fine with personally propagating them if you like, so long as you aren’t selling them: https://old.reddit.com/r/solarpunk/comments/1aw14j3/genetically_engineered_plants_that_glow_in_the/krj8653/?context=3 https://old.reddit.com/r/solarpunk/comments/1aw14j3/genetica...

yvely 3y ago

No EU options? :'(

clarionbell 2y ago
Very much illegal in EU. You would be facing anthrax level penalties for importing or growing them.
- aredox 2y ago
  Imported plants may be out of order because of biosafety and liability laws, but is there a ban anywhere on genetic manipulation of house plants, if done by an EU company?
  - clarionbell 2y ago
    In principle there isn't. But there are laws about introduction of such organisms. So it's fine to do that in a lab. But the moment you put the plant in a pot on your balcony you are in trouble. You need official approval for that. But obtaining it is borderline impossible. Not even the biggest agrotech corporations are trying anymore. There are only a handful of approved organisms, and some countries in EU go even further and ban them as well. So nobody can use them, so nobody will sell them, so nobody will develop them. There is an ongoing effort to bypass these restrictions for CRISPR based technologies. But who knows how effective will that be. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regulation_of_genetic_engineering#European_Union https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regulation_of_genetic_engineer...
    - throw310822 2y ago
      Sometimes I have to agree with Victoria Nuland.
- randomcarbloke 2y ago
  they'll just seize, destroy, and notify, you'd never even see them.

nomilk 3y ago

> these long exposure photos aren’t quite what the human eye sees; it’s more like green tinted moonlight Awesome that it can be done at all but sounds like the images give an exaggerated impression of the glow.

nine_k 3y ago
Human eye accomodates well to darkness. When I enter a dark room from a lit room, I initially can't see anything. But given 60-80 seconds, I become able to clearly see the shapes of furniture around me, and even the pattern on the carpet, even though the room is lit only by a couple of indicator LEDs from a router sitting on the top of a closet. I bet that after a few minutes in a dark room, the petunias will look very visible and detailed. The room has to be dark though; a distant streetlamp through the window would easily overpower a flower.

ed 3y ago

I have these! They really do glow in the dark — but it’s much easier to capture in a photo than see with the naked eye. (Dim) “green tinted moonlight” is a good description of it. Or imagine a barely charged glow in the dark object. Still, cool technology!

socialentp 3y ago
Same here! I agree with your description, but my wife and I still absolutely love it. It’s brighter when your eyes have adjusted to the dark for a while too.
rainbowzootsuit 3y ago
An astronomy trick is to look away slightly from them since the fovea has no rods your slightly peripheral vision is more light sensitive.
teekert 2y ago
Nice remark, and expected. I did some research into this some time ago. We were looking into "bio-light" using luciferase (the mentioned firefly protein). The thing is that that protein emits one photon for 1 ATP (fuel) molecule. The amount of ATP needed to make a 200 lumen plant, is kilograms per day. Completely unfeasible. We concluded that indeed "green tinted moonlight" was about feasible, maybe not even. Seems like now they have a better way, too bad there are no details.
- dillydogg 2y ago
  They published their strategy. It utilizes the bioluminescence pathway from a fungus that uses caffeic acid to generate light. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7610436/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7610436/
- ethbr1 2y ago
  Given the human eye's sensitivity, I think it's a good first step. In a dark room with fully-acclimated eyes, they definitely glow. Mine are still perking up from shipping, so we'll see what output they finally achieve, but people forget you can see in a room lit by a single LED. It doesn't take much to be a night-light.

fnordpiglet 3y ago

Mine just arrived today. Haven’t had a chance to see it glow yet. It arrived a little wilted so I’m letting it get some light and rest before becoming a spectacle Edit: couldn’t resist. Took it into a dark room and it indeed glows with an eerie light. Science!

rnhmjoj 2y ago

Does this have anything to do with the company that was promising street lighting with glowing plants in a kickstarter many years ago[1]? I recognized the picture of the glowing tobacco plant. [1]: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/antonyevans/glowing-plants-natural-lighting-with-no-electricit https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/antonyevans/glowing-pla...

ipsum2 2y ago
No, completely unrelated company.
moralestapia 2y ago
Wow, they pretty much scammed people off half a million, and they got lauded for it. Then, two years later, one of the guys behind the scam off-ed himself. No idea if it was related to it or not, but that's too high of a price to pay for a meager amount of $$$.

aredox 2y ago

This would be awesome as a bedroom night light for kids afraid of the dark!

Etheryte 2y ago
This won't be even remotely bright enough to work as a night light. Think worn out and old glow in the dark chewing gum sticker rather than night light.
pvaldes 2y ago
"If your children are terrified of the dark, make fun of them with our new ectoplasmic glow in the dark effect. Now shaped as tiny ghostly brides". I would totally buy it.

Modified3019 2y ago

Just got mine in today as well. Initially right out of the box, a few flowers only had the faintest touch of glow once my eyes adjusted to darkness. After some time in sunlight and getting watered, the glowing was a bit better and I could see more of the flowers. Once the sun got lower I put them under some led lighting. At my final check for the day I could start to make out some of the leaves. The glow is still faint and requires adjusting to darkness, but didn’t take nearly as long. As it recovers and starts growing vigorously, I do expect it to improve, though I doubt it will ever be capable of competing with most ambient light from any nearby sources. Basically I got what I was expecting and look forward to them continuing to develop the tech, though I do think the company should be more cautious with their marketing images. I’m well aware of how good cameras are at being ad-hoc nightvision since as an agronomist I sometimes end up still trying to scout things when it’s getting dark, and my pictures still look like near daylight. Other people though may end up a bit too optimistic, and disappointed. Eventually I’ll figure out how to take a picture that reflects what I actually see. I’d love to see this applied to English daisies.

tokai 2y ago
Do they smell like normal Petunias?
- ethbr1 2y ago
  Yup! Floral/sweet, strong but not overpowering.
- Modified3019 2y ago
  They smell exactly like normal petunias with flowers being floral, and the leaves smelling like a typical nightshade. Immediately out of the shipping box they’ll be a bit rank, which is normal and expected from keeping a nightshade in a box for 3 days. It quickly dissipates.

cannonpr 2y ago

This seems like a horrible idea considering how much plants exchange genes even cross species very easily ? Never mind what effect it might have to night pollinators and other ecosystem effects. I look forward to fast forwarding a few decades where the entire ecosystem is either collapsing or glowing because of N bio engineered species we didn’t properly understand before releasing.

pennomi 2y ago
While I suspect that’s possible in theory, I think it’s far more likely that ecosystem collapse comes from something like pesticides or habitat loss than gmo.
adrianN 2y ago
Figuring out why glowing gives a species such an advantage that it outcompetes non-glowing competitors would be an interesting post hoc study.
- lawlessone 2y ago
  Just my opinion but I imagine this burns energy for no benefit. I think the plant released into the wild might survive for a little but eventually that glowing gene would be switched off.
lawlessone 2y ago
I think we're safe. If it was advantageous for plants to glow this would probably have already evolved. It already evolved in animals and fungus, microbes etc.
jasongill 2y ago
Not that we shouldn't be careful with any new technology, but do keep in mind that humans have been "genetically modifying organisms" for tens of thousands of years - that's how we ended up with many of the plants you see around, all of the food we eat, pets like dogs, etc. The engineering is becoming more exotic, that's for sure, but it's not new by any stretch

kseistrup 2y ago

Will plants grown from seeds taken from these plants become bioluminescent, too?

ceejayoz 2y ago
Unclear so far; the company hasn't said. Most petunia hybrids don't breed true. Petunias are readily propagated via cuttings, though.
- teraflop 2y ago
  Note that the website says: "Our Firefly Petunias are protected under patent, and as such, propagation and breeding are not permitted."
  - yareal 2y ago
    Good luck. Home gardeners, at least, are absolutely going to propagate their own plants. Gift to friends, etc. Sure, this patent nonsense might protect against broad sales but it won't be much use in stopping their spread. And like, if someone plants these outside, you think the bees are checking patents?
    - indigobunting 2y ago
      "you think the bees are checking patents?" Framable
  - ceejayoz 2y ago
    The next line being "These petunias are sold exclusively for personal use." As with copyrighted material, you get in trouble largely on redistribution, especially at large/commercial scale; I'm certain the company will be keeping a close eye on nurseries, eBay, Etsy, etc. Similar tags have been common practice with roses and other patented plants for decades.
  - shellfishgene 2y ago
    From an article that was on the front page a while ago: "When asked whether Light Bio is worried about plant lovers sharing cuttings of the petunia with friends, Sarkisyan says that although the firm owns patents for the technology, it doesn’t plan to crack down aggressively on the behaviour. “The most positive way of dealing with it is to come up with new, better products,” he says."

mhb 2y ago

Maybe I'm the only one who finds it notable that NPR doesn't know that fungi is plural.

seatac76 2y ago

Mine showed up really stressed. Leaves were all crumbly, I had to prune it back to nothing but tender stems, hopefully it survives. So far very little glow. As others have said, it’s easier to see in total darkness or using long exposure and it needs a LOT of Sun.

chasil 2y ago

It is interesting that this effect is not carried by a chromoplast, as fungi don't have plastids. The mechanism for the bioluminescence must reside in some other cellular organelle. However, if the genes are added to plastid DNA instead of the nucleus, then female seeds would have an exact copy of the bioluminescent DNA additions, since only DNA in the nucleus changes at fertilization. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plastid https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plastid

toastedwedge 2y ago

I have to wonder whether in the coming decades we'll have types of nature preserves or botanical amusement parks where you can stroll through entirely bioluminescent fields (small fields!) of trees and shrubs. Not unlike Avatar, but maybe not (yet) so strongly vibrant. :)

andoando 2y ago
Get them to react to sound and we'll have raves in an enchanted forest. :}