4 ms·

Still slower than alacritty according to https://beuke.org/terminal-latency/ https://beuke.org/terminal-latency/ Also not really cross-platform, contrary to wh

by reyqn 3y ago

Still slower than alacritty according to https://beuke.org/terminal-latency/ https://beuke.org/terminal-latency/ Also not really cross-platform, contrary to what's indicated in the first word of its github description, and the owner is kind of an ass about it https://github.com/kovidgoyal/kitty/issues/6481 https://github.com/kovidgoyal/kitty/issues/6481.

josefx 3y ago
Cross platform does not automatically mean something supports all platforms, nothing does.
- PurpleRamen 3y ago
  But it should support at least more than one platform. And it's disputable what exactly one considers as a platform, or just a flavor of some platform.
  - lupusreal 3y ago
    It does support more than one platform. It supports linux and MacOS, which is two, plus probably half a dozen more flavors of BSD.
    - PurpleRamen 3y ago
      As said, it depends on the definition of platform for this case. All I see is support of a bunch of flavors of one platform, namely POSIX, unixoids, or how you want to call it. Yes, they are different desktop-platforms, but the purpose of this software is still limited to one specific environment. Or to give a different perspective, nobody would call it cross-platform, just because it can run with Gnome and KDE, under X11 and Wayland. And I'm curious how much adaption happens for each OS really. Are there specific changes for MacOS and BSD, outside of some paths for configurations?
      - dpassens 3y ago
        The entire point of POSIX is that, if you only use what it defines, your program automatically becomes cross-platform, because it will run on several Unices, as well as other systems (like Haiku).
      - pasc1878 3y ago
        MacOS will have to be different as the GUI layer is not X11 or anything like it.
        PurpleRamen 3y ago
        Wayland is also not X11. Just curious, but is it really so hard for people here to think outside the box?
        dpassens 3y ago
        To me, it seems like the people thinking inside the box are those that claim that cross-platform necessarily implies it runs on Windows.
        lupusreal 3y ago
        It's probably fair to say that an application with native Wayland and X11 support is multiplatform. I can understand somebody disputing that, but certainly Linux and MacOS are different platforms. They don't even share executable formats.
        reyqn 3y ago
        The heavy lifting is done by glfw though.
aumerle 3y ago
And kitty is much faster according to this: https://github.com/kovidgoyal/kitty/issues/2701#issuecomment-911089374 https://github.com/kovidgoyal/kitty/issues/2701#issuecomment... Also typometer based measurements also on Linux. Shrug.
- reyqn 3y ago
  This was 2 and a half year ago, maybe alacritty improved since then.
  - aumerle 3y ago
    Maybe, on the other hand: the link you posted was to a benchmark using kitty 0.31, since then it had an all new escape code parser using SIMD vector CPU instructions that sped it up by 2x. https://sw.kovidgoyal.net/kitty/changelog/#cheetah-speed https://sw.kovidgoyal.net/kitty/changelog/#cheetah-speed
    - reyqn 3y ago
      I do think this wasn't excluded by the benchmarks from the link I posted Edit: actually it was, cheetah seems to come with 0.33, not 0.31, and benchmarks were done in 0.31. It would be interesting to run them with 0.33.
pxc 3y ago
Anything that supports more than one platform is cross-platform. The world doesn't revolve around Windows.
jraph 3y ago
> Also not really cross-platform [...] How is this relevant to this conversation? The author replied with the same effort as the person who reported the issue. You kinda need to do this as a maintainer if you don't want to drawn under low quality reports and burn all your energy. I'm sure lucasjinreal would have gotten a kinder answer if they took time to phrase their issue ("demand", at this point, also misguided) nicely.
- reyqn 3y ago
  It's not really, I just remembered wanting to try out this terminal emulator and being quite surprised that something actively advertised as cross-platform didn't support Windows. I agree that the person posting the issue wasn't really doing it in a diplomatic way, but in the end, the result is the same. I think it's disingenuous to actively advertise something as cross-platform, without even specifying which platforms are actually supported (even if yes, technically it's cross-platform)
  - Karellen 3y ago
    > without even specifying which platforms are actually supported The first line of the README (ok, second line if you include the title) is "See the kitty website" with a link, and on the site the top menu has a "cross platform" entry which then lists "Linux, MacOS, Various BSDs". It seems like a stretch to classify that as disingenuous.
    - reyqn 3y ago
      So I have to click twice, change domains once in order to get this information. It's actually easier to just check the releases for prebuilt windows binaries. I think that's telling.
      - Karellen 3y ago
        > So I have to click twice, change domains If you start from the github source code repo, instead of starting from the official website. I guess. If you're determined to be disappointed, I suppose you'll find a way. Whatever.

by reyqn 3y ago

josefx 3y ago

Cross platform does not automatically mean something supports all platforms, nothing does.

PurpleRamen 3y ago
But it should support at least more than one platform. And it's disputable what exactly one considers as a platform, or just a flavor of some platform.
- lupusreal 3y ago
  It does support more than one platform. It supports linux and MacOS, which is two, plus probably half a dozen more flavors of BSD.
  - PurpleRamen 3y ago
    As said, it depends on the definition of platform for this case. All I see is support of a bunch of flavors of one platform, namely POSIX, unixoids, or how you want to call it. Yes, they are different desktop-platforms, but the purpose of this software is still limited to one specific environment. Or to give a different perspective, nobody would call it cross-platform, just because it can run with Gnome and KDE, under X11 and Wayland. And I'm curious how much adaption happens for each OS really. Are there specific changes for MacOS and BSD, outside of some paths for configurations?
    - dpassens 3y ago
      The entire point of POSIX is that, if you only use what it defines, your program automatically becomes cross-platform, because it will run on several Unices, as well as other systems (like Haiku).
    - pasc1878 3y ago
      MacOS will have to be different as the GUI layer is not X11 or anything like it.
      - PurpleRamen 3y ago
        Wayland is also not X11. Just curious, but is it really so hard for people here to think outside the box?
        dpassens 3y ago
        To me, it seems like the people thinking inside the box are those that claim that cross-platform necessarily implies it runs on Windows.
        lupusreal 3y ago
        It's probably fair to say that an application with native Wayland and X11 support is multiplatform. I can understand somebody disputing that, but certainly Linux and MacOS are different platforms. They don't even share executable formats.
      - reyqn 3y ago
        The heavy lifting is done by glfw though.

aumerle 3y ago

And kitty is much faster according to this: https://github.com/kovidgoyal/kitty/issues/2701#issuecomment-911089374 https://github.com/kovidgoyal/kitty/issues/2701#issuecomment... Also typometer based measurements also on Linux. Shrug.

reyqn 3y ago
This was 2 and a half year ago, maybe alacritty improved since then.
- aumerle 3y ago
  Maybe, on the other hand: the link you posted was to a benchmark using kitty 0.31, since then it had an all new escape code parser using SIMD vector CPU instructions that sped it up by 2x. https://sw.kovidgoyal.net/kitty/changelog/#cheetah-speed https://sw.kovidgoyal.net/kitty/changelog/#cheetah-speed
  - reyqn 3y ago
    I do think this wasn't excluded by the benchmarks from the link I posted Edit: actually it was, cheetah seems to come with 0.33, not 0.31, and benchmarks were done in 0.31. It would be interesting to run them with 0.33.

pxc 3y ago

Anything that supports more than one platform is cross-platform. The world doesn't revolve around Windows.

jraph 3y ago

> Also not really cross-platform [...] How is this relevant to this conversation? The author replied with the same effort as the person who reported the issue. You kinda need to do this as a maintainer if you don't want to drawn under low quality reports and burn all your energy. I'm sure lucasjinreal would have gotten a kinder answer if they took time to phrase their issue ("demand", at this point, also misguided) nicely.

reyqn 3y ago
It's not really, I just remembered wanting to try out this terminal emulator and being quite surprised that something actively advertised as cross-platform didn't support Windows. I agree that the person posting the issue wasn't really doing it in a diplomatic way, but in the end, the result is the same. I think it's disingenuous to actively advertise something as cross-platform, without even specifying which platforms are actually supported (even if yes, technically it's cross-platform)
- Karellen 3y ago
  > without even specifying which platforms are actually supported The first line of the README (ok, second line if you include the title) is "See the kitty website" with a link, and on the site the top menu has a "cross platform" entry which then lists "Linux, MacOS, Various BSDs". It seems like a stretch to classify that as disingenuous.
  - reyqn 3y ago
    So I have to click twice, change domains once in order to get this information. It's actually easier to just check the releases for prebuilt windows binaries. I think that's telling.
    - Karellen 3y ago
      > So I have to click twice, change domains If you start from the github source code repo, instead of starting from the official website. I guess. If you're determined to be disappointed, I suppose you'll find a way. Whatever.