6 ms·

Southwest Boeing 737-800 flight from Denver loses engine cover

59 points by janpot 2y ago

leemailll 2y ago
ATC recording from VasAviation: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GBQkk4RcidA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GBQkk4RcidA
albeva 2y ago
Poor Boeing. They just can't catch a break...
- Ragnarork 2y ago
  Alas, if only there was a way to reduce the risk of these happening...
- inductive_magic 2y ago
  It’s almost like they had systemic issues with their quality control.
  - ffgjgf1 2y ago
    It’s really not at all obvious that Boeing is more at fault in this specific case than the airline/maintenance company.
- bustling-noose 2y ago
  I hope this is sarcasm cause in no way Boeing is ‘poor’. There is a duopoly of aircraft and doesn’t matter what reputation Boeing gets, the orders will keep coming in. If your airline cancels an order 5 others are waiting to take your spot.
  - akie 2y ago
    I would be surprised if Boeing isn't seeing or going to see reduced orders because of this endless barrage of bad news.
    - ffgjgf1 2y ago
      Airbus has a 5-10 year backlog for many of its models so it’s not like airlines have a choice.
      - bustling-noose 2y ago
        Exactly. if I was an airline whos entire business depends on aircrafts then in order to satisfy my demands I cant just wait 10 years before something is available. Maybe instead of 50/50 it's become 65/35 now but that 35 is still years of jets delivery for Boeing.
    - bustling-noose 2y ago
      https://simpleflying.com/ryanair-wants-boeing-737-max-orders-canceled-us-airlines/ https://simpleflying.com/ryanair-wants-boeing-737-max-orders... Youll be surprised to know then someone else is willing to take the order if it's cancelled.
- verytrivial 2y ago
  Seem to be able to break a catch though
- labster 2y ago
  Experienced employees will continue to be laid off until quality improves.
- brnt 2y ago
  They could. They are however not interested in working for the catch.
bustling-noose 2y ago
Another Boeing incidence. There should be a statistics page somewhere where incidences are marked on some graph or chart showing engine manufacturers airplane manufacturers airlines etc. if any exist would like to see such a page.
- KingOfCoders 2y ago
  Do you know if the parts the flew away, are build by the engine manufacturer, are build by the engine manufacturer and attached/assembled by Boeing or are those coverings build and attached by Boeing (because every attachment for every plane is different, even for the same engine?)
  - madaxe_again 2y ago
    It isn’t relevant - the final assembler is responsible for QC. If I build something, and I buy something from a third party to be part of it, I make sure that A) it isn’t defective B) it integrates robustly You can wave your hand at the supply chain all you want, but if you’re sticking your name on it, it’s yours.
    - chinathrow 2y ago
      The plane was built in 2015. This is not about building the engine doors, it's about who did not close them properly during last maintenance.
      - deleted 2y ago
        [deleted]
      - KingOfCoders 2y ago
        My laptop breaks down after 5 years. Is it about the manufacturer because they made a bad design that broke after some years, or me doing properly maintenance?
        2y ago
tvbv 2y ago
2̶7̶ 0 days since last boeing-falling-apart incident.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
madaxe_again 2y ago
Maybe they should do some more stock buybacks and then ask the fed for a bailout. Boeing are a welfare company - they would not exist without their close relationship with the government and the taxpayer dollars that are funnelled to them. Competent competition would eat them alive, if competition were permissible in the land of the free (for some, not for you) markets.
- ffgjgf1 2y ago
  There are plenty of Airbus planes in the US. Nobody is directly prohibiting competition it’s just that no private company could ever catch up without massive a amount of government funding.
  - kalleboo 2y ago
    Boeing has absolutely been prohibiting competition https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CSeries_dumping_petition_by_Boeing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CSeries_dumping_petition_by_Bo...
    - ffgjgf1 2y ago
      Yeah, but it was one company subsidized by the government using its influence to bring down another company which was even more heavily subsidized by their respective government (not that it would have been possible to break into this market any other way). Free competition wasn’t really an option either way.
SSchick 2y ago
This is most certainly a maintenance issue, not a production issue since this a part that is often temporarily removed. Not trying to defend boeing but please be aware that these incidents are somewhat common and are currently being disproportionally reported due their relevance of past events.
- red_admiral 2y ago
  For all we know, it could also have been a bird strike.
consumer451 2y ago
Previously discussed and flagged: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39963776 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39963776 Comment which I Favorited: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39964702 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39964702 > We all know the Baader–Meinhof / frequency illusion, which is where something becomes interesting to an observer so suddenly they notice things that were always there, but because they suddenly notice it seems there has been some massive increase in frequency. > What is it when something gets into the zeitgeist narrative so every possible instance is widely reported on in a way that it wasn't before? Parts have always been flying off planes, and there have always been maintenance issues, but suddenly every single one is reported making it feel like it's some sudden outbreak. In the same way we're hearing about every boat hitting something when boats have always been hitting things, it just didn't have a context under which it was newsworthy. Internalize this, I am trying to as well. This is one of the points of HN-worthy discussion.
- csours 2y ago
  It's kind of amazing that, in reality, everything is always almost-failing (love the efficiency BAYBYYY). If we gold-plated every solution we would run out of gold; or have fewer solutions. Of course, in reality, there are a LOT of things happening, and we hear about the few notable failures, not the many many many almost-failures.
fen4o 2y ago
As much as I would like to dogpile on Boeing right now, that particular airplane has been in operation since 2015. This would likely be Southwest maintenance issues rather than Boeing.
- paganel 2y ago
  I think that by now most of the people have started putting the blame on the US aviation and air-transportation industry as a whole, it's not just Boeing anymore. That includes the FTC, the carriers, yes, Boeing, and a ton of other sub-contractors. It's systemic by this point, and I feel that it's not only the fault of those "pesky MBAs running Boeing" anymore.
  - worddepress 2y ago
    It's the pesky MBAs running Washington?
  - cm2187 2y ago
    Things breaking on planes somewhere in the world happen multiple times a day (you can see a sort of log on https://avherald.com/ https://avherald.com/). On top of not necessarily being the manufacturer’s fault, I don’t know that these events happen more often than usual.
  - cmmeur01 2y ago
    They set the culture from the top.
- throwiforgtnlzy 2y ago
  "Something else hasn't had a problem before so it must be okay" isn't proof of anything and a fallacy. There are known unknown structural issues with 737 NG's (-6xx to -9xx non-MAX) beginning around 1995 that have never been resolved because they were assembled poorly and built with substandard "approved" components by subcontractor DuCommun but aren't so serious that they would necessarily cause an immediate, catastrophic failure. Instead, there have been an increase in fuselage damage and failures under heavy load circumstances such as hard landings, runway overruns, and potentially during extreme turbulence. Al Jazerra made a feature-length documentary about it and the tales of the whisleblowers, but because of the predominant anti-muslim bias in America, it has been largely ignored and dismissed by the mainstream. Even Wikipedia includes biased conclusions that Obama's DOJ rammed down the throats of media and countermanded the NTSB's investigations and statements. [0] 0. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ducommun#Faulty_parts_dispute_with_Boeing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ducommun#Faulty_parts_dispute_...
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
KingOfCoders 2y ago
(2019) "On October 14, Southwest Airlines (SWA) flew an empty aircraft to San Salvador at El Salvador International Airport in order to accomplish a heavy maintenance check on that aircraft. A heavy maintenance check is the most labor-intensive check performed on an aircraft during its flying life." https://amfanational.medium.com/southwest-airlines-begins-foreign-outsourcing-once-again-e0ca26961e53 https://amfanational.medium.com/southwest-airlines-begins-fo... "Today, Southwest Airlines outsources 80 percent of all aircraft maintenance. You read that correctly [...] He said United Airlines outsources 51 percent of maintenance, Alaska Airlines farms out 49 percent, Delta hires vendors for 43 percent, and American Airlines contracts out 33 percent." https://www.dallasnews.com/business/local-companies/2019/02/26/southwest-airlines-pilots-blame-company-for-stoking-unnecessary-fear-in-flying-public/ https://www.dallasnews.com/business/local-companies/2019/02/...

59 points by janpot 2y ago

leemailll 2y ago

ATC recording from VasAviation: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GBQkk4RcidA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GBQkk4RcidA

albeva 2y ago

Poor Boeing. They just can't catch a break...

Ragnarork 2y ago
Alas, if only there was a way to reduce the risk of these happening...
inductive_magic 2y ago
It’s almost like they had systemic issues with their quality control.
- ffgjgf1 2y ago
  It’s really not at all obvious that Boeing is more at fault in this specific case than the airline/maintenance company.
bustling-noose 2y ago
I hope this is sarcasm cause in no way Boeing is ‘poor’. There is a duopoly of aircraft and doesn’t matter what reputation Boeing gets, the orders will keep coming in. If your airline cancels an order 5 others are waiting to take your spot.
- akie 2y ago
  I would be surprised if Boeing isn't seeing or going to see reduced orders because of this endless barrage of bad news.
  - ffgjgf1 2y ago
    Airbus has a 5-10 year backlog for many of its models so it’s not like airlines have a choice.
    - bustling-noose 2y ago
      Exactly. if I was an airline whos entire business depends on aircrafts then in order to satisfy my demands I cant just wait 10 years before something is available. Maybe instead of 50/50 it's become 65/35 now but that 35 is still years of jets delivery for Boeing.
  - bustling-noose 2y ago
    https://simpleflying.com/ryanair-wants-boeing-737-max-orders-canceled-us-airlines/ https://simpleflying.com/ryanair-wants-boeing-737-max-orders... Youll be surprised to know then someone else is willing to take the order if it's cancelled.
verytrivial 2y ago
Seem to be able to break a catch though
labster 2y ago
Experienced employees will continue to be laid off until quality improves.
brnt 2y ago
They could. They are however not interested in working for the catch.

bustling-noose 2y ago

Another Boeing incidence. There should be a statistics page somewhere where incidences are marked on some graph or chart showing engine manufacturers airplane manufacturers airlines etc. if any exist would like to see such a page.

KingOfCoders 2y ago
Do you know if the parts the flew away, are build by the engine manufacturer, are build by the engine manufacturer and attached/assembled by Boeing or are those coverings build and attached by Boeing (because every attachment for every plane is different, even for the same engine?)
- madaxe_again 2y ago
  It isn’t relevant - the final assembler is responsible for QC. If I build something, and I buy something from a third party to be part of it, I make sure that A) it isn’t defective B) it integrates robustly You can wave your hand at the supply chain all you want, but if you’re sticking your name on it, it’s yours.
  - chinathrow 2y ago
    The plane was built in 2015. This is not about building the engine doors, it's about who did not close them properly during last maintenance.
    - deleted 2y ago
      [deleted]
    - KingOfCoders 2y ago
      My laptop breaks down after 5 years. Is it about the manufacturer because they made a bad design that broke after some years, or me doing properly maintenance?
      - 2y ago

tvbv 2y ago

2̶7̶ 0 days since last boeing-falling-apart incident.

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]

madaxe_again 2y ago

Maybe they should do some more stock buybacks and then ask the fed for a bailout. Boeing are a welfare company - they would not exist without their close relationship with the government and the taxpayer dollars that are funnelled to them. Competent competition would eat them alive, if competition were permissible in the land of the free (for some, not for you) markets.

ffgjgf1 2y ago
There are plenty of Airbus planes in the US. Nobody is directly prohibiting competition it’s just that no private company could ever catch up without massive a amount of government funding.
- kalleboo 2y ago
  Boeing has absolutely been prohibiting competition https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CSeries_dumping_petition_by_Boeing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CSeries_dumping_petition_by_Bo...
  - ffgjgf1 2y ago
    Yeah, but it was one company subsidized by the government using its influence to bring down another company which was even more heavily subsidized by their respective government (not that it would have been possible to break into this market any other way). Free competition wasn’t really an option either way.

SSchick 2y ago

This is most certainly a maintenance issue, not a production issue since this a part that is often temporarily removed. Not trying to defend boeing but please be aware that these incidents are somewhat common and are currently being disproportionally reported due their relevance of past events.

red_admiral 2y ago
For all we know, it could also have been a bird strike.

consumer451 2y ago

Previously discussed and flagged: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39963776 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39963776 Comment which I Favorited: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39964702 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39964702 > We all know the Baader–Meinhof / frequency illusion, which is where something becomes interesting to an observer so suddenly they notice things that were always there, but because they suddenly notice it seems there has been some massive increase in frequency. > What is it when something gets into the zeitgeist narrative so every possible instance is widely reported on in a way that it wasn't before? Parts have always been flying off planes, and there have always been maintenance issues, but suddenly every single one is reported making it feel like it's some sudden outbreak. In the same way we're hearing about every boat hitting something when boats have always been hitting things, it just didn't have a context under which it was newsworthy. Internalize this, I am trying to as well. This is one of the points of HN-worthy discussion.

csours 2y ago
It's kind of amazing that, in reality, everything is always almost-failing (love the efficiency BAYBYYY). If we gold-plated every solution we would run out of gold; or have fewer solutions. Of course, in reality, there are a LOT of things happening, and we hear about the few notable failures, not the many many many almost-failures.

fen4o 2y ago

As much as I would like to dogpile on Boeing right now, that particular airplane has been in operation since 2015. This would likely be Southwest maintenance issues rather than Boeing.

paganel 2y ago
I think that by now most of the people have started putting the blame on the US aviation and air-transportation industry as a whole, it's not just Boeing anymore. That includes the FTC, the carriers, yes, Boeing, and a ton of other sub-contractors. It's systemic by this point, and I feel that it's not only the fault of those "pesky MBAs running Boeing" anymore.
- worddepress 2y ago
  It's the pesky MBAs running Washington?
- cm2187 2y ago
  Things breaking on planes somewhere in the world happen multiple times a day (you can see a sort of log on https://avherald.com/ https://avherald.com/). On top of not necessarily being the manufacturer’s fault, I don’t know that these events happen more often than usual.
- cmmeur01 2y ago
  They set the culture from the top.
throwiforgtnlzy 2y ago
"Something else hasn't had a problem before so it must be okay" isn't proof of anything and a fallacy. There are known unknown structural issues with 737 NG's (-6xx to -9xx non-MAX) beginning around 1995 that have never been resolved because they were assembled poorly and built with substandard "approved" components by subcontractor DuCommun but aren't so serious that they would necessarily cause an immediate, catastrophic failure. Instead, there have been an increase in fuselage damage and failures under heavy load circumstances such as hard landings, runway overruns, and potentially during extreme turbulence. Al Jazerra made a feature-length documentary about it and the tales of the whisleblowers, but because of the predominant anti-muslim bias in America, it has been largely ignored and dismissed by the mainstream. Even Wikipedia includes biased conclusions that Obama's DOJ rammed down the throats of media and countermanded the NTSB's investigations and statements. [0] 0. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ducommun#Faulty_parts_dispute_with_Boeing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ducommun#Faulty_parts_dispute_...

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

KingOfCoders 2y ago

(2019) "On October 14, Southwest Airlines (SWA) flew an empty aircraft to San Salvador at El Salvador International Airport in order to accomplish a heavy maintenance check on that aircraft. A heavy maintenance check is the most labor-intensive check performed on an aircraft during its flying life." https://amfanational.medium.com/southwest-airlines-begins-foreign-outsourcing-once-again-e0ca26961e53 https://amfanational.medium.com/southwest-airlines-begins-fo... "Today, Southwest Airlines outsources 80 percent of all aircraft maintenance. You read that correctly [...] He said United Airlines outsources 51 percent of maintenance, Alaska Airlines farms out 49 percent, Delta hires vendors for 43 percent, and American Airlines contracts out 33 percent." https://www.dallasnews.com/business/local-companies/2019/02/26/southwest-airlines-pilots-blame-company-for-stoking-unnecessary-fear-in-flying-public/ https://www.dallasnews.com/business/local-companies/2019/02/...