5 ms·

There is no performance cost, there is a performance gain: https://sw.kovidgoyal.net/kitty/performance/#throughput https://sw.kovidgoyal.net/kitty/performance/#

There is no performance cost, there is a performance gain: https://sw.kovidgoyal.net/kitty/performance/#throughput https://sw.kovidgoyal.net/kitty/performance/#throughput

abhinavk 2y ago
Kitty was slower than alacritty and foot as per author's earlier input latency tests. https://mastodon.online/@YaLTeR/110837121102628111 https://mastodon.online/@YaLTeR/110837121102628111
- aumerle 2y ago
  That's because kitty's default settings introduce a few ms of latency deliberately to save energy, see details at: https://sw.kovidgoyal.net/kitty/performance/#keyboard-to-screen-latency https://sw.kovidgoyal.net/kitty/performance/#keyboard-to-scr... If you want to do a fair comparison to alacritty you need to set those to the recommended values for best latency.
  - reyqn 2y ago
    Still slower than alacritty according to https://beuke.org/terminal-latency/ https://beuke.org/terminal-latency/ Also not really cross-platform, contrary to what's indicated in the first word of its github description, and the owner is kind of an ass about it https://github.com/kovidgoyal/kitty/issues/6481 https://github.com/kovidgoyal/kitty/issues/6481.
    - josefx 2y ago
      Cross platform does not automatically mean something supports all platforms, nothing does.
      - PurpleRamen 2y ago
        But it should support at least more than one platform. And it's disputable what exactly one considers as a platform, or just a flavor of some platform.
        lupusreal 2y ago
        It does support more than one platform. It supports linux and MacOS, which is two, plus probably half a dozen more flavors of BSD.
        PurpleRamen 2y ago
        As said, it depends on the definition of platform for this case. All I see is support of a bunch of flavors of one platform, namely POSIX, unixoids, or how you want to call it. Yes, they are different desktop-platforms, but the purpose of this software is still limited to one specific environment. Or to give a different perspective, nobody would call it cross-platform, just because it can run with Gnome and KDE, under X11 and Wayland. And I'm curious how much adaption happens for each OS really. Are there specific changes for MacOS and BSD, outside of some paths for configurations?
        dpassens 2y ago
        The entire point of POSIX is that, if you only use what it defines, your program automatically becomes cross-platform, because it will run on several Unices, as well as other systems (like Haiku).
        pasc1878 2y ago
        MacOS will have to be different as the GUI layer is not X11 or anything like it.
        PurpleRamen 2y ago
        Wayland is also not X11. Just curious, but is it really so hard for people here to think outside the box?
    - aumerle 2y ago
      And kitty is much faster according to this: https://github.com/kovidgoyal/kitty/issues/2701#issuecomment-911089374 https://github.com/kovidgoyal/kitty/issues/2701#issuecomment... Also typometer based measurements also on Linux. Shrug.
      - reyqn 2y ago
        This was 2 and a half year ago, maybe alacritty improved since then.
        aumerle 2y ago
        Maybe, on the other hand: the link you posted was to a benchmark using kitty 0.31, since then it had an all new escape code parser using SIMD vector CPU instructions that sped it up by 2x. https://sw.kovidgoyal.net/kitty/changelog/#cheetah-speed https://sw.kovidgoyal.net/kitty/changelog/#cheetah-speed
        reyqn 2y ago
        I do think this wasn't excluded by the benchmarks from the link I posted Edit: actually it was, cheetah seems to come with 0.33, not 0.31, and benchmarks were done in 0.31. It would be interesting to run them with 0.33.
    - pxc 2y ago
      Anything that supports more than one platform is cross-platform. The world doesn't revolve around Windows.
    - jraph 2y ago
      > Also not really cross-platform [...] How is this relevant to this conversation? The author replied with the same effort as the person who reported the issue. You kinda need to do this as a maintainer if you don't want to drawn under low quality reports and burn all your energy. I'm sure lucasjinreal would have gotten a kinder answer if they took time to phrase their issue ("demand", at this point, also misguided) nicely.
      - reyqn 2y ago
        It's not really, I just remembered wanting to try out this terminal emulator and being quite surprised that something actively advertised as cross-platform didn't support Windows. I agree that the person posting the issue wasn't really doing it in a diplomatic way, but in the end, the result is the same. I think it's disingenuous to actively advertise something as cross-platform, without even specifying which platforms are actually supported (even if yes, technically it's cross-platform)
        Karellen 2y ago
        > without even specifying which platforms are actually supported The first line of the README (ok, second line if you include the title) is "See the kitty website" with a link, and on the site the top menu has a "cross platform" entry which then lists "Linux, MacOS, Various BSDs". It seems like a stretch to classify that as disingenuous.
        reyqn 2y ago
        So I have to click twice, change domains once in order to get this information. It's actually easier to just check the releases for prebuilt windows binaries. I think that's telling.
        Karellen 2y ago
        > So I have to click twice, change domains If you start from the github source code repo, instead of starting from the official website. I guess. If you're determined to be disappointed, I suppose you'll find a way. Whatever.
alpaca128 2y ago
That's only throughput, but on latency it's significantly slower than alacritty, xterm, st etc according to all measurements I've seen.

There is no performance cost, there is a performance gain: https://sw.kovidgoyal.net/kitty/performance/#throughput https://sw.kovidgoyal.net/kitty/performance/#throughput

abhinavk 2y ago

Kitty was slower than alacritty and foot as per author's earlier input latency tests. https://mastodon.online/@YaLTeR/110837121102628111 https://mastodon.online/@YaLTeR/110837121102628111

aumerle 2y ago
That's because kitty's default settings introduce a few ms of latency deliberately to save energy, see details at: https://sw.kovidgoyal.net/kitty/performance/#keyboard-to-screen-latency https://sw.kovidgoyal.net/kitty/performance/#keyboard-to-scr... If you want to do a fair comparison to alacritty you need to set those to the recommended values for best latency.
- reyqn 2y ago
  Still slower than alacritty according to https://beuke.org/terminal-latency/ https://beuke.org/terminal-latency/ Also not really cross-platform, contrary to what's indicated in the first word of its github description, and the owner is kind of an ass about it https://github.com/kovidgoyal/kitty/issues/6481 https://github.com/kovidgoyal/kitty/issues/6481.
  - josefx 2y ago
    Cross platform does not automatically mean something supports all platforms, nothing does.
    - PurpleRamen 2y ago
      But it should support at least more than one platform. And it's disputable what exactly one considers as a platform, or just a flavor of some platform.
      - lupusreal 2y ago
        It does support more than one platform. It supports linux and MacOS, which is two, plus probably half a dozen more flavors of BSD.
        PurpleRamen 2y ago
        As said, it depends on the definition of platform for this case. All I see is support of a bunch of flavors of one platform, namely POSIX, unixoids, or how you want to call it. Yes, they are different desktop-platforms, but the purpose of this software is still limited to one specific environment. Or to give a different perspective, nobody would call it cross-platform, just because it can run with Gnome and KDE, under X11 and Wayland. And I'm curious how much adaption happens for each OS really. Are there specific changes for MacOS and BSD, outside of some paths for configurations?
        dpassens 2y ago
        The entire point of POSIX is that, if you only use what it defines, your program automatically becomes cross-platform, because it will run on several Unices, as well as other systems (like Haiku).
        pasc1878 2y ago
        MacOS will have to be different as the GUI layer is not X11 or anything like it.
        PurpleRamen 2y ago
        Wayland is also not X11. Just curious, but is it really so hard for people here to think outside the box?
  - aumerle 2y ago
    And kitty is much faster according to this: https://github.com/kovidgoyal/kitty/issues/2701#issuecomment-911089374 https://github.com/kovidgoyal/kitty/issues/2701#issuecomment... Also typometer based measurements also on Linux. Shrug.
    - reyqn 2y ago
      This was 2 and a half year ago, maybe alacritty improved since then.
      - aumerle 2y ago
        Maybe, on the other hand: the link you posted was to a benchmark using kitty 0.31, since then it had an all new escape code parser using SIMD vector CPU instructions that sped it up by 2x. https://sw.kovidgoyal.net/kitty/changelog/#cheetah-speed https://sw.kovidgoyal.net/kitty/changelog/#cheetah-speed
        reyqn 2y ago
        I do think this wasn't excluded by the benchmarks from the link I posted Edit: actually it was, cheetah seems to come with 0.33, not 0.31, and benchmarks were done in 0.31. It would be interesting to run them with 0.33.
  - pxc 2y ago
    Anything that supports more than one platform is cross-platform. The world doesn't revolve around Windows.
  - jraph 2y ago
    > Also not really cross-platform [...] How is this relevant to this conversation? The author replied with the same effort as the person who reported the issue. You kinda need to do this as a maintainer if you don't want to drawn under low quality reports and burn all your energy. I'm sure lucasjinreal would have gotten a kinder answer if they took time to phrase their issue ("demand", at this point, also misguided) nicely.
    - reyqn 2y ago
      It's not really, I just remembered wanting to try out this terminal emulator and being quite surprised that something actively advertised as cross-platform didn't support Windows. I agree that the person posting the issue wasn't really doing it in a diplomatic way, but in the end, the result is the same. I think it's disingenuous to actively advertise something as cross-platform, without even specifying which platforms are actually supported (even if yes, technically it's cross-platform)
      - Karellen 2y ago
        > without even specifying which platforms are actually supported The first line of the README (ok, second line if you include the title) is "See the kitty website" with a link, and on the site the top menu has a "cross platform" entry which then lists "Linux, MacOS, Various BSDs". It seems like a stretch to classify that as disingenuous.
        reyqn 2y ago
        So I have to click twice, change domains once in order to get this information. It's actually easier to just check the releases for prebuilt windows binaries. I think that's telling.
        Karellen 2y ago
        > So I have to click twice, change domains If you start from the github source code repo, instead of starting from the official website. I guess. If you're determined to be disappointed, I suppose you'll find a way. Whatever.

alpaca128 2y ago

That's only throughput, but on latency it's significantly slower than alacritty, xterm, st etc according to all measurements I've seen.