4 ms·

I accompanied several friends through the process. My observation was that by simply changing the view on what is happening and extrapolating how to act based

I accompanied several friends through the process. My observation was that by simply changing the view on what is happening and extrapolating how to act based on that one can achieve quite a lot. I told people the following: 1. The person dealing with you is not there to help you, they are simply executing an act of governance. Rather than wanting them to help you, try to help them close their tickt. 2. You are the type of immigrant people actually want. These popele see lots of drama, lies, heartbreak and hopelessness. If you are pleasant and well prepared they will probably like working on your case since it will not make them feel bad. 3. Things take time. Be as early as possible with everything and realize that there early is a way to speed things up. Keeping those three things to heart worked very well. That does not make things faster, but it takes a lot of frustration out of the process.

Ratelman 3y ago
This is a brilliant view and probably applies to most situations when a person has to process something - not just government and not just Germany. Very, very few people outright don't want to help - if you come in trying to be the light in their day, they'll WANT to help you get your things done quickly and efficiently, and vice versa. A kind reminder, thanks @niemandhier
amonavis 3y ago
To me this is a weird view of government services. I'm paying taxes to have a system serve me, and to have processes support my life not the other way around. Leaving all emotions out of the equation, the job of the jurisdiction under which I fall is so facilitate my legality so I can pursue a productive and enjoyable life. If I'm paying taxes and I'm expected to pitch in the governmental effort, then that's not where I want to be.
- duggan 3y ago
  You can deal with the world either how you wish it were, or how it is. The reality is that bureaucracies are full of humans – and we all know how humans are.
  - Rinzler89 3y ago
    Everything is full of humans, but private companies with terrible processes workers would usually have consequences that demand some change. Government services have no competition sos they are exempt from consequences if they're terrible.
    - malthaus 3y ago
      ah - i see you've never dealt with vodafone germany customer support then
      - Rinzler89 3y ago
        Can you read my previous point? Vodafone Germany has competition, I'm not forced to be their customer if I don't want to, but I can take my money elsewhere. Meanwhile I can't choose between other government services while in Germany but those terrible forced upon me by the state.
    - amaccuish 3y ago
      Before the war when I studied Russian, I had the unpleasant experience of having to get a Russian visa, which is usually subcontracted to "VFS Global", a private company. Didn't do anything to improve the experience at all.
      - Rinzler89 3y ago
        Private means nothing if it's just another monopoly without any competition.
    - duggan 3y ago
      Plenty of exceptions to that – broadly speaking, oligopolies, but generally anywhere with low competition like the only convenience store in a locality, rural broadband, etc. There is no perfect competition, supply doesn't perfectly meet demand, and incentives aren't always perfectly aligned ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ In any case, government services change through policy and, thus, indirectly, through the electorate. But a) it lags, b) is not the only issue the electorate care about, c) the supply of money is not infinite, d) the supply of labour is not fungible and e) in this specific case, policy on immigration is generally driven by people not immigrating, so the incentives are not aligned.
- Hendrikto 3y ago
  You can either try to make that ideal work, or accept reality.
- column 3y ago
  When you pay for a service, public or private, you are still dealing with humans that are not your slaves.So be kind and you'll get a better time or be entitled and you'll go to the bottom of the pile.
egorfine 3y ago
So much this. As a ukrainian, I have been immensely helped by the government officer in Germany while applying for temporal protection - just by being nice and understanding. Still took months with no success, because the German bureaucracy is in complete disrepair and is brain damaged.

Ratelman 3y ago

This is a brilliant view and probably applies to most situations when a person has to process something - not just government and not just Germany. Very, very few people outright don't want to help - if you come in trying to be the light in their day, they'll WANT to help you get your things done quickly and efficiently, and vice versa. A kind reminder, thanks @niemandhier

amonavis 3y ago

To me this is a weird view of government services. I'm paying taxes to have a system serve me, and to have processes support my life not the other way around. Leaving all emotions out of the equation, the job of the jurisdiction under which I fall is so facilitate my legality so I can pursue a productive and enjoyable life. If I'm paying taxes and I'm expected to pitch in the governmental effort, then that's not where I want to be.

duggan 3y ago
You can deal with the world either how you wish it were, or how it is. The reality is that bureaucracies are full of humans – and we all know how humans are.
- Rinzler89 3y ago
  Everything is full of humans, but private companies with terrible processes workers would usually have consequences that demand some change. Government services have no competition sos they are exempt from consequences if they're terrible.
  - malthaus 3y ago
    ah - i see you've never dealt with vodafone germany customer support then
    - Rinzler89 3y ago
      Can you read my previous point? Vodafone Germany has competition, I'm not forced to be their customer if I don't want to, but I can take my money elsewhere. Meanwhile I can't choose between other government services while in Germany but those terrible forced upon me by the state.
  - amaccuish 3y ago
    Before the war when I studied Russian, I had the unpleasant experience of having to get a Russian visa, which is usually subcontracted to "VFS Global", a private company. Didn't do anything to improve the experience at all.
    - Rinzler89 3y ago
      Private means nothing if it's just another monopoly without any competition.
  - duggan 3y ago
    Plenty of exceptions to that – broadly speaking, oligopolies, but generally anywhere with low competition like the only convenience store in a locality, rural broadband, etc. There is no perfect competition, supply doesn't perfectly meet demand, and incentives aren't always perfectly aligned ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ In any case, government services change through policy and, thus, indirectly, through the electorate. But a) it lags, b) is not the only issue the electorate care about, c) the supply of money is not infinite, d) the supply of labour is not fungible and e) in this specific case, policy on immigration is generally driven by people not immigrating, so the incentives are not aligned.
Hendrikto 3y ago
You can either try to make that ideal work, or accept reality.
column 3y ago
When you pay for a service, public or private, you are still dealing with humans that are not your slaves.So be kind and you'll get a better time or be entitled and you'll go to the bottom of the pile.

egorfine 3y ago

So much this. As a ukrainian, I have been immensely helped by the government officer in Germany while applying for temporal protection - just by being nice and understanding. Still took months with no success, because the German bureaucracy is in complete disrepair and is brain damaged.