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Why are kids being forced to eat lunch in silence?
- badgersnake 3y agoMost state labor laws would require a 30 minute lunch break, this isn’t for no reason.
- seeknotfind 3y agoMan if this happened to me as a kid, I'd fucking learn sign language or start blinking in morse code. What jerks! They are asking for a class of rebels.
- wizzwizz4 3y agoYou'd have to know those existed. These children are quite young, and might not have heard of Morse code (and hand signing slows eating down nearly as much as speaking).
- seeknotfind 3y agoAccidental hunger strike.
- derivagral 3y agoMy class learned to sign letters in like 3rd grade. The usual suspects very blatantly signed, letter by letter, to each other across desk aisles and still got caught. We never did make it to words.
- Stratoscope 3y ago> start blinking in morse code In at least one famous incident, this skill proved very useful: https://www.archives.gov/exhibits/eyewitness/html.php?section=8 https://www.archives.gov/exhibits/eyewitness/html.php?sectio...
- graemep 3y agoI do not believe that it even achieves the aim of improving academic achievement, except maybe in the very short term. Happy, healthy, motivated kids do better academically - as well as in everyone other way. I thought this would be about somewhere like Britain's strictest school, but even there kids are encouraged to talk.: https://time.com/5232857/michaela-britains-strictest-school/ https://time.com/5232857/michaela-britains-strictest-school/ Silence is just horrific. It is like some form of punishment made daily normality.
- xg15 3y agoYeah, there is no way the kids can meaningfully participate in all those lessons if they are in constant distress. It does however improve the "potential" for academic achievement on paper, because schools can advertise how many daily lessons their students take. Number go up and all...
- ohmyiv 3y agoI feel old reading that article. I guess it was all the "when I was a kid..." thoughts that popped into my head. I believe social skills are pretty important to learn in elementary school. "When I was a kid", recess and lunch were one of the best times where we could get to know and learn from each other. And it applied to classwork and playing games and hobbies. It seems to me that taking kids away from socialization in school is just going to lead them to even more social media where they'll probably not learn the best social skills. But it could just be my weariness of social media make feel this way.
- zeroCalories 3y agoHaha, this seems like something out of a parody. School ranking are kinda nessesary, but are also the biggest victim of Goodheart's law. If you want to teach more stuff, then how about you just make the day longer? This decision seems less like something that was done for the children, and more for having another checkbox filled while keeping the kids easy to process. I'm not even convinced that foreign languages are worth teaching at school. Bryan Caplan writes about how in terms if effort/reward, English is the only foreign language that will be worth studying. Personally I spent many years in Spanish and French classes, and I've pretty much forgotten everything. Complete waste of time. Another thing that makes me feel like this is just another checkbox instead of something done for the children.
- bigthymer 3y ago> I'm not even convinced that foreign languages are worth teaching at school. Bryan Caplan writes about how in terms if effort/reward, English is the only foreign language that will be worth studying. Personally I spent many years in Spanish and French classes, and I've pretty much forgotten everything. Complete waste of time. Another thing that makes me feel like this is just another checkbox instead of something done for the children. Myself and I believe all of my cousins took Spanish classes in school. I've hardly used it since then and my Spanish is terrible. However, theirs is much better. I think it largely depends on what type of career you are involved in and whether frequent interaction with regular people is involved. Most of us in the software world only interact with others in professional environments who speak English well.
- treyd 3y agoAlso, while I essentially never had a use for the 2 years of spanish I took in high school, it really made my english writing better. Learning spanish made me learn more about the structure of sentences (how to talk about direct/indirect objects, etc.) and learn more latin roots that I never would have consciously been exposed to, which is very useful to me now in the context of figuring out what people are saying when hearing/reading other european languages. It made my grades in english classes go up since my writing was more formally correct and comprehensible. The knowledge transfer felt the same as it does when applying skills learned in the context of one programming language to another programming language.
- therealfiona 3y agoThis is what they enforced during basic training. We had like 5min to shove 1000 calories into our mouth, and if someone in front of you got up before you were done, you had about 20 seconds to finish and get up before being yelled at to leave. In Elementary school, my friends and I would come up with things to do at recess, talk about our weekends, and plan sleep overs. This is bonding time that is gotten no where else. (Assuming the kids are not dropped off an hour before school starts, or picked up after the parents get done working at 5pm) Extend the day by 10 minutes and give the kids that extra time.
- dataflow 3y agoWow. At first I started reading the article thinking the goal was teaching kindergarteners to avoid getting distracted while eating. I just assumed after they finished eating then they could go out and chat or play. I most certainly did not expect the goal to be for scores to maintain high rankings, or for this to be the entirety of their lunch times. This feels like... torture. We want to limit children's social media usage and cut off their in-person social interactions in school? How is this not horrifying to all the parents? Whatever happened to "think of the children"?
- gumby 3y agoThis sounds pretty crazy. I know how "Kindergarten" is defined in the USA but still: academics for 5 yo? At that age my kid's teachers were trying to keep them from taking their clothes off if they weren't playing in the mud, and teaching them to queue.
- kalleboo 3y agoI dunno about the US but here in Japan for pre-school there is "daycare" (保育園) and "kindergarten" (幼稚園), the former being just a place to put your kids when you're at work and they mostly play, and the latter focusing more on academics. But even my kids in "just" daycare do get the opportunity to learn to read and write (hiragana and ABCs) and basic maths (reading/writing numbers and adding up single-digits) to their level of interest
- seanmcdirmid 3y agoIn much of Asia, kindergarten is pre-schooling, but in the USA it corresponds to grade zero which is when formal public education starts. You are actually free to skip this grade in most states (you can start your kid in first grade), but most don’t.
- Izkata 3y agoIn the US they're separate - kindergarten corresponds to grade zero, and preschool is a year before that. Preschool is the optional one, and kindergarten is required in the vast majority of states.
- seanmcdirmid 3y agohttps://www.edweek.org/education/state-policies-on-kindergarten-are-all-over-the-map/2002/01#:~:text=But%20even%20as%20talk%20of,survey%20conducted%20for%20Quality%20Counts https://www.edweek.org/education/state-policies-on-kindergar.... > Shortly after the turn of the 20th century, proponents of educating children at an early age began lobbying for more kindergarten classes. ''The movement was never to make kindergarten compulsory,” says Barbara Beatty, an associate professor of education at Wellesley College and the author of Preschool Education in America. “It was to mandate that districts offer kindergarten.” > Now, more than 100 years’ later, state policies still vary on how--and even if--districts must offer kindergarten. > But even as talk of the importance of high-quality preschool education reaches unprecedented levels, some states--Alaska, Colorado, Idaho, Michigan, New Hampshire, New Jersey, New York, North Dakota, and Pennsylvania--do not require districts to establish kindergartens, according to an Education Week survey conducted for Quality Counts. (In these states districts don’t have to offer kindergarten) > Currently, 13 states--Arkansas, Delaware, Kentucky, Louisiana, Maryland, New Mexico, Ohio, Oklahoma, Rhode Island, South Carolina, Tennessee, Virginia, and West Virginia--and the District of Columbia require children to attend kindergarten. In Rhode Island, Tennessee, and West Virginia, the law requires that youngsters attend kindergarten even though they do not have to start school until they are 6, the age at which children customarily enter 1st grade. (Only 13 states mandate that your kids have to attend kindergarten)
- _3u10 3y agoschool is a prison with an early release program for exceptional grades.
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- trashface 3y agoI'm childfree but...this can't be real. Someone tell me this isn't actually happening. Shut the kids up so that they eat more quickly and have more time for studies?? That is SICK
- aaron695 3y ago[dead]
- SuperNinKenDo 3y agoSeems weird that the author continued sending their kid to the school...
- tivert 3y ago> Seems weird that the author continued sending their kid to the school... Unless you're rich, school choice in the US is often not a thing. It's not really practical to sell your house and move to another district over something like this, and uprooting your kid like that has its own downsides.
- SuperNinKenDo 3y agoGiven the prestige of the school, I have to assume this person has some serious money.
- tivert 3y ago> Given the prestige of the school, I have to assume this person has some serious money. I don't think that follows. It's quite possible they have the money to buy a house in a "good" school district, but not the disposable income for private elementary school (even assuming there's a private school available and it's equivalent or better).
- SuperNinKenDo 3y agoYeah, I suppose that's a fair point.
- colechristensen 3y agoTo quote the Sex Pistols… schools are prisons. Armed guards, forced to be there by the state, forced to be with disruptive sometimes violent fellow inmates, require permission to do simple things like use the bathroom. Consequence free torture (bullying) of classmates. It is getting increasingly absurd. There have been several school shootings where i read the details of what had happened to the perpetrator and hated to think yep that young person was behaving rationally when they lashed out violently because it was their only recourse in the situation they were forced to endure for years. People go on about gun control and mental heath but ignore the fact that there are a lot of children enduring conditions that would be called atrocities if they were prisoners of war. And it’s all at the hands of foolish people who are trying to have the “best interests” of children in mind. Five year olds forced to eat in silence for only fifteen minutes sounds like an absurd over the top young adult dystopian novel.
- defrost 3y agoSchools Are Prisons .. the B-Side of Revolution in the Classroom by the EX Pistols ?? They famously were not the Sex Pistols .. what's next, attributing songs from The Celibate Rifles or Machine Gun Fellatio ?
- colechristensen 3y agoTo be fair, the cover of the single actually does say “Sex Pistols”, the former Sex Pistols producer was sued successfully for being misleading. I was successfully mislead. There’s your weird music lore for the day.
- defrost 3y agoIt was a con alright, and you fell for The Great Swindle .. :) TBH I wasn't sure if you were aware and were knowingly going with the I can't believe it's not butter of UK punk. The oddest thing about your comment, though, was the armed guards and school shootings references following a UK band callout - The Dunblane massacre aside (which was an adult shooter back in 1996) neither feature much in UK or Commonwealth schools, for the most part they're US phenomena, if not in uniqueness then certainly in ubiquitousness and frequency.
- grdnogdc 3y ago[flagged]
- summermusic 3y agoIt is interesting that this is being touted as having advantages given that it was just a punishment in the past. When I was in elementary school (early 2000s, small town United States, public school) we often had to eat lunch in silence to punish the student body for something.
- Fire-Dragon-DoL 3y agoI'm confused how this is even legal. It's called lunch break, and this is being inflicted to kindergarteners?! I'm pretty confident this is a disaster from the social aspect, social services should close the school outright
- tivert 3y agoBut kids gotta learn to code, and we gotta have a society where kids gotta learn to code.
- Fire-Dragon-DoL 3y agoI love code, but kids gotta play in the playground with other kids and have a lot of fun while eating. I know you were joking, it just drives me crazy picturing my kids in that situation
- Tanoc 3y agoThis is the kind of stuff that would've gotten me suspended or even expelled had it been implemented when I was a student because I would've purposely disobeyed it in a flamboyant and impossible to ignore way and gotten others to do so with me. I knew as a kid that even if my parents didn't care about school policies (which they often didn't), somebody else's would and would contest them. With modern measures of "safety" students are subjected to more and more restrictions, and it seems they're becoming more passive as a consequence. That may actually be the intended result. But it seems to be harming students more and more as they seem less inclined to oppose obviously stupid policies and decisions. Later in life that passivity towards authority will harm them as others take advantage of or even abuse them in a professional setting.
- musicale 3y agoWhen did kindergarten stop being fun? Students (and humans in general) naturally enjoy learning things and only start to hate it when it is forced upon them. ;-( Instead of making kindergarten more "serious" like upper grades, we should be making upper grades more like kindergarten: fun, creative, autonomous, multimodal, physically active, socially engaging, etc.
- ojkelly 3y agoAs someone with misophonia[0] this would be an unbearable and unsettling punishment. Hearing other people eating is like being stuck in an elevator after lunch, when someone drops their guts. But, even quiet chatter or tv is enough to mask the sound. To say nothing of the boredom of 15 minutes of a silence. [0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Misophonia https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Misophonia > Misophonia (or selective sound sensitivity syndrome, sound-rage) is a disorder of decreased tolerance to specific sounds or their associated stimuli, or cues. These cues, known as "triggers", are experienced as unpleasant or distressing and tend to evoke strong negative emotional, physiological, and behavioral responses that are not seen in most other people.
- amriksohata 3y agoSilence is best for digestion
- BrandoElFollito 3y agoThis is absolutely not the case in France where discussing over a meal is a very strong cultural trait. Schools are trying to dial down the noise in canteens but that's all. Having someone eating in silence would be a form of punition. It is also interesting how heated the discussions over meals can become (for adults), where you discuss politics, religion, sex stuff and whatnot and people can get deeply engaged. And then the meal ends and so does the discussion (or drama) ,as if it never happened. This is usually store disturbing/surprising to foreigners who are not used to such a separation.