17 ms·

Why aren't the police equipped with recording devices that are active whenever they are interacting with the public? It seems that anyone with that sort of powe

by ori_b 14y ago

Why aren't the police equipped with recording devices that are active whenever they are interacting with the public? It seems that anyone with that sort of power should have an audit trail for their actions.

Mvandenbergh 14y ago
Some police are, I've seen them with helmet cams before.
matwood 14y ago
The Denver police have been trialing a program to do just this: http://blogs.westword.com/latestword/2011/10/denver_police_wearing_cameras.php http://blogs.westword.com/latestword/2011/10/denver_police_w... It's taken a lot of brutality cases and lawsuits to get them to this point though.
- ori_b 14y ago
  > * Officers will be able to turn the cameras on or off at their discretion.* That part seems to render much of the experiment useless, sadly.
  - matwood 14y ago
    Yes and no. If the camera is on and then shuts off for a few moments it does make the officer look like they are trying to hide something. Also, just having this step in the right direction will hopefully set up a time in the future when all dealings with the police have to be recorded by law. A similar thing happened in my home town. A state law said that all police cars must have cameras for DUI stops. One of the counties in the state that wrote the most DUIs kept saying they couldn't afford to put cameras in all of the cruisers. Finally, a judge started throwing out all DUIs where the camera wasn't installed. Cameras were all installed and working in short order. Technology has made it so easy to record all interactions that if the police are not doing it then the default reason is they are trying to hide something.
Mizza 14y ago
I run the OpenWatch project - http://openwatch.net http://openwatch.net Many officers use our software to record themselves on duty. They use this evidence in court for exactly this reason.
- Alex3917 14y ago
  Do you have any experience with people using Looxcies? They are basically like tiny Bluetooth ear pieces but with an HD video camera. It seems like they'd be perfect for recording the cops, but I have no idea if they're actually any good or not in that sort of environment.
cwp 14y ago
Because people with that sort of power don't want an audit trail of their actions.
- jamesBB 14y ago
  That's pretty darn cynical, I think people in general want their privacy respected, regardless of power level.
  - revelation 14y ago
    Privacy comes from private. What you do in your function as a public servant is not private.
    - DanBC 14y ago
      Civilians may be uncomfortable with police officers recording everything all the time. See, for example, discussion about CCTV in England. There are many valid concerns about the amount of stuff that's recorded.
- carguy1983 14y ago
  I think it's just technology adoption lag. Cruisers have had these cameras on their dashboards (dash cams) for a while now. At first with resistance but now it's saved more cops than burnt.
  - leot 14y ago
    This is in part because cops (indeed, nearly everyone) behave better when their actions are recorded.
guelo 14y ago
In Oakland all police officers are equipped with lapel cameras. But having been involved in Occupy Oakland's legal and anti-repression work what we have found is that since police have discretion as to when they can turn the devices on and off and when to upload, the video always seems to be mysteriously missing whenever defense lawyers request it. The officer will say that they forgot to turn it on or that it malfunctioned. If there is an instance of a protestor throwing a bottle that video is always available and is splashed all over the press.
- crusso 14y ago
  The cameras should be required to be on in order for the officer to do anything "in the line of duty". Furthermore, they should broadcast a wifi feed of what they're seeing in real time so that anyone can have a "listener" running nearby to capture it. You could have a listener in your car, at your apartment, or running on your iPhone. There should be a listener in the police car that instantly uploads the feed to a server managed by an agency that is totally independent from the police department. Camera always on. Everyone gets an immediate copy.
  - dodo53 14y ago
    that would be pretty handy for actual criminals
    - crusso 14y ago
      Ha, good point. Okay, well amend my brainstorming to just being a live feed that goes to an independent agency that can make the video available at a later date.
      - fffggg 14y ago
        Yes, all that's needed is for it to become available to subpoena and other lawful process.
    - ori_b 14y ago
JshWright 14y ago
It's becoming more common. The local cops in my area wear microphones that activate whenever they're away from their vehicle (everything that happens near the vehicle is captured by the dash cam). Every cop I've talked to about it is very positive. It often make their life much easier in court...
spindritf 14y ago
There are a couple of legitimate reasons why police officers might not want to be recorded 8-12 hours a day. First is purely psychological. Would you want to have someone looking over your shoulder all the time? Would you want your employer to record everything you do on your computer through some spyware? Have a camera mounted above your head? Second is procedural. There are so many rules and regulations that it's almost impossible not to break some of them (just like with laws in western countries) so police officers (just like citizens) rely on low detection rate for minor violations and difficulty of proving anything. There is also something to be said about how trustworthy police officers would be everyone they come in contact while on duty. People (and that includes criminals) find it much easier to trust a person they see standing in front ot them than some unknown tape reviewer. And finally, basic privacy. If you work for many hours with little to do (patrolling the streets isn't exactly a consuming task), you probably have a lot of personal conversations with your partners. Those problems will also be made worse by the officers themselves struggling with yet another piece of equipment (have you ever seen a cop running?). All or almost all of the above could probably be resolved with selective recording, clear indicators of when the camera is running, light and easy to use devices and other technical solutions. Though we all know that, as with any other technological project, first users will get a lot of leakage and other bugs. And with the feedback loops what they are in the government, many may not be fixed for a really long time.
- drumdance 14y ago
  Would you want to have someone looking over your shoulder all the time? People who work in retail seem to be doing just fine, not to mention officers of the court who's every word and deed is recorded and transcribed.
  - mikeash 14y ago
    Don't forget airline pilots. And call center employees. And.... Well, I think it's clear enough that people can manage to do their jobs while being constantly watched. I won't say it's necessarily a good idea, but if it's a good idea for anybody, then people who are legally empowered to use force to enforce the law ought to be at the top of the list.
nextparadigms 14y ago
They should be, but all those video streams should be either made public or at least sent to a completely different Government agency, so the police has no power over the data.

by ori_b 14y ago

Mvandenbergh 14y ago

Some police are, I've seen them with helmet cams before.

matwood 14y ago

The Denver police have been trialing a program to do just this: http://blogs.westword.com/latestword/2011/10/denver_police_wearing_cameras.php http://blogs.westword.com/latestword/2011/10/denver_police_w... It's taken a lot of brutality cases and lawsuits to get them to this point though.

ori_b 14y ago
> * Officers will be able to turn the cameras on or off at their discretion.* That part seems to render much of the experiment useless, sadly.
- matwood 14y ago
  Yes and no. If the camera is on and then shuts off for a few moments it does make the officer look like they are trying to hide something. Also, just having this step in the right direction will hopefully set up a time in the future when all dealings with the police have to be recorded by law. A similar thing happened in my home town. A state law said that all police cars must have cameras for DUI stops. One of the counties in the state that wrote the most DUIs kept saying they couldn't afford to put cameras in all of the cruisers. Finally, a judge started throwing out all DUIs where the camera wasn't installed. Cameras were all installed and working in short order. Technology has made it so easy to record all interactions that if the police are not doing it then the default reason is they are trying to hide something.

Mizza 14y ago

I run the OpenWatch project - http://openwatch.net http://openwatch.net Many officers use our software to record themselves on duty. They use this evidence in court for exactly this reason.

Alex3917 14y ago
Do you have any experience with people using Looxcies? They are basically like tiny Bluetooth ear pieces but with an HD video camera. It seems like they'd be perfect for recording the cops, but I have no idea if they're actually any good or not in that sort of environment.

cwp 14y ago

Because people with that sort of power don't want an audit trail of their actions.

jamesBB 14y ago
That's pretty darn cynical, I think people in general want their privacy respected, regardless of power level.
- revelation 14y ago
  Privacy comes from private. What you do in your function as a public servant is not private.
  - DanBC 14y ago
    Civilians may be uncomfortable with police officers recording everything all the time. See, for example, discussion about CCTV in England. There are many valid concerns about the amount of stuff that's recorded.
carguy1983 14y ago
I think it's just technology adoption lag. Cruisers have had these cameras on their dashboards (dash cams) for a while now. At first with resistance but now it's saved more cops than burnt.
- leot 14y ago
  This is in part because cops (indeed, nearly everyone) behave better when their actions are recorded.

guelo 14y ago

In Oakland all police officers are equipped with lapel cameras. But having been involved in Occupy Oakland's legal and anti-repression work what we have found is that since police have discretion as to when they can turn the devices on and off and when to upload, the video always seems to be mysteriously missing whenever defense lawyers request it. The officer will say that they forgot to turn it on or that it malfunctioned. If there is an instance of a protestor throwing a bottle that video is always available and is splashed all over the press.

crusso 14y ago
The cameras should be required to be on in order for the officer to do anything "in the line of duty". Furthermore, they should broadcast a wifi feed of what they're seeing in real time so that anyone can have a "listener" running nearby to capture it. You could have a listener in your car, at your apartment, or running on your iPhone. There should be a listener in the police car that instantly uploads the feed to a server managed by an agency that is totally independent from the police department. Camera always on. Everyone gets an immediate copy.
- dodo53 14y ago
  that would be pretty handy for actual criminals
  - crusso 14y ago
    Ha, good point. Okay, well amend my brainstorming to just being a live feed that goes to an independent agency that can make the video available at a later date.
    - fffggg 14y ago
      Yes, all that's needed is for it to become available to subpoena and other lawful process.
  - ori_b 14y ago

JshWright 14y ago

It's becoming more common. The local cops in my area wear microphones that activate whenever they're away from their vehicle (everything that happens near the vehicle is captured by the dash cam). Every cop I've talked to about it is very positive. It often make their life much easier in court...

spindritf 14y ago

There are a couple of legitimate reasons why police officers might not want to be recorded 8-12 hours a day. First is purely psychological. Would you want to have someone looking over your shoulder all the time? Would you want your employer to record everything you do on your computer through some spyware? Have a camera mounted above your head? Second is procedural. There are so many rules and regulations that it's almost impossible not to break some of them (just like with laws in western countries) so police officers (just like citizens) rely on low detection rate for minor violations and difficulty of proving anything. There is also something to be said about how trustworthy police officers would be everyone they come in contact while on duty. People (and that includes criminals) find it much easier to trust a person they see standing in front ot them than some unknown tape reviewer. And finally, basic privacy. If you work for many hours with little to do (patrolling the streets isn't exactly a consuming task), you probably have a lot of personal conversations with your partners. Those problems will also be made worse by the officers themselves struggling with yet another piece of equipment (have you ever seen a cop running?). All or almost all of the above could probably be resolved with selective recording, clear indicators of when the camera is running, light and easy to use devices and other technical solutions. Though we all know that, as with any other technological project, first users will get a lot of leakage and other bugs. And with the feedback loops what they are in the government, many may not be fixed for a really long time.

drumdance 14y ago
Would you want to have someone looking over your shoulder all the time? People who work in retail seem to be doing just fine, not to mention officers of the court who's every word and deed is recorded and transcribed.
- mikeash 14y ago
  Don't forget airline pilots. And call center employees. And.... Well, I think it's clear enough that people can manage to do their jobs while being constantly watched. I won't say it's necessarily a good idea, but if it's a good idea for anybody, then people who are legally empowered to use force to enforce the law ought to be at the top of the list.

nextparadigms 14y ago

They should be, but all those video streams should be either made public or at least sent to a completely different Government agency, so the police has no power over the data.