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Not at all. Go to one of those almost-free european colleges, and then compare the experience to a US college. The US colleges expect most students to come fro

Not at all. Go to one of those almost-free european colleges, and then compare the experience to a US college. The US colleges expect most students to come from far away, live on a big, expensive, beautiful campus and have massive efforts in student lifestyle. Sport facilities, museums, academic support, actual office hours... it's closer to expensive, private EU universities. Most EU universities don't do that, and they are ran to cut costs. The expense per student is low, on purpose. They might both be called universities, but it's completely different goods. The transformations of European schools to be available to the masses just didn't happen in the US, and therefore the prices are through the roof. Give any American university the budget per student than a German or Spanish university has, and they'd have to just close, because they aren't built for it.

lxgr 3y ago
> live on a big, expensive, beautiful campus and have massive efforts in student lifestyle. Sport facilities, museums, academic support, actual office hours... Interesting how you mention things actually relevant to academic quality towards the end of that enumeration! > They might both be called universities, but it's completely different goods. It almost sounds like one of them bundles a lot of things with education that are more of a lifestyle than an education. I really don't doubt the academic quality of US colleges, and being able to actually talk to somebody that knows your name and is somewhat incentivized to care about your progress is something I'd love to see at European universities. But all the other stuff... Are people in the US really happy with only getting all of that as a bundle deal, often resulting in crushing, non-bankruptable debt?
- chii 3y ago
  > Are people in the US really happy i mean, they're doing it, so it must mean they're happy. Otherwise, they won't do it. It's not like someone forced these people to go into debt. It's just that those students who do go into debt is doing so thinking they getting a prestigious degree would get them a good job and an easy life afterwards - a marketing tactic sold to a generation of young people that is not actually true any more (even if it was once true).
  - janalsncm 3y ago
    I don’t agree with this logic at all. We didn’t have any other options. If you want a desk job, you need to go to a four year college. The amenities and the prestige of the college are also not the same thing. Stanford was just as prestigious 50 years ago when it was a fraction of the cost.
  - lxgr 3y ago
    In the same way that they are happy with the health care system, because otherwise why would anyone go to a doctor?
    - chii 3y ago
      The healthcare system is not optional, unlike the tertiary education system.
      - janalsncm 3y ago
        Graduating high school is also optional I suppose. Not everyone does. The question in my mind shouldn’t be “why didn’t people think harder about getting an advanced education” but rather “why is the US the only country in the world that accepts punishing debt for its brightest youth?” Yes, at an individual level there is always the option to become a plumber rather than an accountant. But America cannot be a nation of plumbers.

lxgr 3y ago

> live on a big, expensive, beautiful campus and have massive efforts in student lifestyle. Sport facilities, museums, academic support, actual office hours... Interesting how you mention things actually relevant to academic quality towards the end of that enumeration! > They might both be called universities, but it's completely different goods. It almost sounds like one of them bundles a lot of things with education that are more of a lifestyle than an education. I really don't doubt the academic quality of US colleges, and being able to actually talk to somebody that knows your name and is somewhat incentivized to care about your progress is something I'd love to see at European universities. But all the other stuff... Are people in the US really happy with only getting all of that as a bundle deal, often resulting in crushing, non-bankruptable debt?

chii 3y ago
> Are people in the US really happy i mean, they're doing it, so it must mean they're happy. Otherwise, they won't do it. It's not like someone forced these people to go into debt. It's just that those students who do go into debt is doing so thinking they getting a prestigious degree would get them a good job and an easy life afterwards - a marketing tactic sold to a generation of young people that is not actually true any more (even if it was once true).
- janalsncm 3y ago
  I don’t agree with this logic at all. We didn’t have any other options. If you want a desk job, you need to go to a four year college. The amenities and the prestige of the college are also not the same thing. Stanford was just as prestigious 50 years ago when it was a fraction of the cost.
- lxgr 3y ago
  In the same way that they are happy with the health care system, because otherwise why would anyone go to a doctor?
  - chii 3y ago
    The healthcare system is not optional, unlike the tertiary education system.
    - janalsncm 3y ago
      Graduating high school is also optional I suppose. Not everyone does. The question in my mind shouldn’t be “why didn’t people think harder about getting an advanced education” but rather “why is the US the only country in the world that accepts punishing debt for its brightest youth?” Yes, at an individual level there is always the option to become a plumber rather than an accountant. But America cannot be a nation of plumbers.