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> They want to use Apple's tools and technologies, distribute on the App Store , and benefit from the trust we've built with users - and pay Apple nothing for i

> They want to use Apple's tools and technologies, distribute on the App Store , and benefit from the trust we've built with users - and pay Apple nothing for it This quote smells like a "self-induced problem" since they literally require developers to buy or rent their hardware to build an app and also (at least, previously) required developers to publish on the App Store. If I could build an iPhone app on my Windows machine and publish an app from my website, then their argument wouldn't make any sense.

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
Drakim 3y ago
To me it smells like flat out dishonesty. They are pretending the App Store is this premium high quality service that the riff-raff wants to get unfair access to, while they have actually been fighting tooth, claw, and nail to make any other alternative way of getting apps onto the iPhone physically impossible. If I wanna make an app for my mom's iPhone, I *can't* because Apple is preventing me. All while saying I'm trying to take advantage of them by wanting to get my app on the App Store. While working hard to make sure I have no other options. It's one small step removed from "stop hitting yourself" logic.
- withinboredom 3y ago
  Further, they actively stifle competition on their app store. Want to launch an MVP? It's "too similar to other apps in this market."
  - ben_w 3y ago
    While I doubt they're going to be good judges of similarity, in the cases where they are correct that it is too similar, you don't have the "V" part of "Viable". > “All happy companies are diferent: each one earns a monopoly by solving a unique problem. All failed companies are the same: they failed to escape competition” — I may be creeped out by the guy himself, but I think Peter Thiel is right about that.
    - withinboredom 3y ago
      Everyone starts in the womb, but very few of us tread the same paths.
      - ben_w 3y ago
        I think the human analogy of an MVP is around when they can stand upright and talk, perhaps even a bit later than that. Before birth we're definitely a pre-release; but we won't reach product-market fit until whatever our culture counts as a coming-of-age ceremony.
    - Pfhortune 3y ago
      Isn't this just picking winners with more steps?
      - ben_w 3y ago
        Quite possibly, which is related to my doubt of their skill at judging similarity.
- threeseed 3y ago
  > If I wanna make an app for my mom's iPhone, I can't because Apple is preventing me You can. You just add her to TestFlight and renew the app every 3 months.
ben_w 3y ago
Mild disagree, though I can appreciate the sentiment. Why do developers want to publish and distribute on the App Store? As a dev myself, my anecdotal answer is: because I can make money doing so. Why can I make money doing so? Because Apple built trust with the users, and because they developed the tools and technologies that made their OS worth paying significantly more for similar tech specs.
- withinboredom 3y ago
  > I can make money doing so. Not everyone is interested in making money.
- talldayo 3y ago
  If the App Store wasn't the only place to download software on iPhone, you'd have more of a point. Instead, it doesn't matter what the relationship is between the user and Apple since there's only one option anyways. Apple wants to make the App Store look like Steam; at best, they're the built-in Microsoft store.
  - ben_w 3y ago
    [flagged]
    - lapcat 3y ago
      > I remember when the App Store didn't exist, and devs were begging for one. They weren't begging for an app store. They were begging for third-party native apps. The exact method of distribution of third-party apps is a different matter. From 1977 to 2007, all third-party apps on Apple platforms were independently distributed. (Some boxed software was sold in retail Apple Stores from 2001, but the software was not exclusive to Apple Stores.)
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
    - heavyset_go 3y ago
      Nobody was begging for an app store lol
benced 3y ago
Apple has this exactly backwards. Their platforms have value because of developers. There’s a reason Apple added an App Store after the app-less first year of the iPhone. How many people would switch to android, even if they like apple’s design better, if Apple had no apps? It’s just a farcical claim on their part.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

Drakim 3y ago

To me it smells like flat out dishonesty. They are pretending the App Store is this premium high quality service that the riff-raff wants to get unfair access to, while they have actually been fighting tooth, claw, and nail to make any other alternative way of getting apps onto the iPhone physically impossible. If I wanna make an app for my mom's iPhone, I *can't* because Apple is preventing me. All while saying I'm trying to take advantage of them by wanting to get my app on the App Store. While working hard to make sure I have no other options. It's one small step removed from "stop hitting yourself" logic.

withinboredom 3y ago
Further, they actively stifle competition on their app store. Want to launch an MVP? It's "too similar to other apps in this market."
- ben_w 3y ago
  While I doubt they're going to be good judges of similarity, in the cases where they are correct that it is too similar, you don't have the "V" part of "Viable". > “All happy companies are diferent: each one earns a monopoly by solving a unique problem. All failed companies are the same: they failed to escape competition” — I may be creeped out by the guy himself, but I think Peter Thiel is right about that.
  - withinboredom 3y ago
    Everyone starts in the womb, but very few of us tread the same paths.
    - ben_w 3y ago
      I think the human analogy of an MVP is around when they can stand upright and talk, perhaps even a bit later than that. Before birth we're definitely a pre-release; but we won't reach product-market fit until whatever our culture counts as a coming-of-age ceremony.
  - Pfhortune 3y ago
    Isn't this just picking winners with more steps?
    - ben_w 3y ago
      Quite possibly, which is related to my doubt of their skill at judging similarity.
threeseed 3y ago
> If I wanna make an app for my mom's iPhone, I can't because Apple is preventing me You can. You just add her to TestFlight and renew the app every 3 months.

ben_w 3y ago

Mild disagree, though I can appreciate the sentiment. Why do developers want to publish and distribute on the App Store? As a dev myself, my anecdotal answer is: because I can make money doing so. Why can I make money doing so? Because Apple built trust with the users, and because they developed the tools and technologies that made their OS worth paying significantly more for similar tech specs.

withinboredom 3y ago
> I can make money doing so. Not everyone is interested in making money.
talldayo 3y ago
If the App Store wasn't the only place to download software on iPhone, you'd have more of a point. Instead, it doesn't matter what the relationship is between the user and Apple since there's only one option anyways. Apple wants to make the App Store look like Steam; at best, they're the built-in Microsoft store.
- ben_w 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - lapcat 3y ago
    > I remember when the App Store didn't exist, and devs were begging for one. They weren't begging for an app store. They were begging for third-party native apps. The exact method of distribution of third-party apps is a different matter. From 1977 to 2007, all third-party apps on Apple platforms were independently distributed. (Some boxed software was sold in retail Apple Stores from 2001, but the software was not exclusive to Apple Stores.)
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - heavyset_go 3y ago
    Nobody was begging for an app store lol

benced 3y ago

Apple has this exactly backwards. Their platforms have value because of developers. There’s a reason Apple added an App Store after the app-less first year of the iPhone. How many people would switch to android, even if they like apple’s design better, if Apple had no apps? It’s just a farcical claim on their part.