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Tesla reportedly drops plan to build $25,000 EV
- leetharris 3y ago> Tesla CEO Elon Musk claimed, without proof, that Reuters is “lying” in a post on his social media platform, X, and did not dispute any specific details. This is wild to me. The CEO of the very company being discussed is saying that it is a false story and TechCrunch is saying that he made the claim without proof. But they don't call out Reuters for posting this claim with zero proof.
- mvdtnz 3y agoOn one side is Reuters with "three sources familiar with the matter and company messages seen by Reuters" and the other side is the CEO with a penchant for outright lies. Neither is a particularly reliable source but I don't see any problem with Tech Crunch's framing given Musk's history of outright lying about what's happening in Tesla.
- BoorishBears 3y agoYeah, what should be wild to them is that a CEO of a major company has washed their credibility so badly that their word isn't worth much more than a rumor is
- arandomusername 3y agoWhat is some of the outright lying? And let's not consider optimistic goals as lying, can you show examples of actual lying where he knew the opposite was true?
- viraptor 3y agoThere's quite a few lists of you're actually interested. For example https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-lists/elon-musk-twitter-zuckerberg-lies-1234808808/ https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-lists/elon-musk... Just search for them - most are verified by his tweets at the time.
- arandomusername 3y agoLiterally first item on your list is basically too optimistic > Talking Up Hyperloop, the (Fantasy) Transportation of the Future Another item > Saying He’d Take Tesla Private With a Tweet, Then Getting Sued for Fraud Actual tweet: “Am considering taking Tesla private at $420. Funding secured.” Which a) reads like a joke and b) didn't say he is taking, but considering. The only potential lie is wrt funding, which he still claims he had secured. > Procrastinating on an Epic Manned Mission to Mars Again, over-promising / optimistic. It's not outright lying. > Resorting to ‘Pedo’ Smears Because Someone Didn’t Like His Little Submersible Only lie, but it's more of petty insulting than outright lying, at least when it comes to with relation in business matters. > Constantly Kicking the Can Down the Road on Fully Self-Driving Teslas Again, optimistic. First 5 points addressed, and it's junk. The closest thing to him outright lying is the “Am considering taking Tesla private at $420. Funding secured.” tweet. And that's the best. The rest of the article is just whining about twitter this and that. It's a hit piece instead of an objective list of lies.
- jrflowers 3y agoCheck mate. He cannot have lied about Tesla if anything he says about Tesla is categorically excluded from being a lie for the purposes of this conversation.
- arandomusername 3y agoWe are excluding optimistic promises that weren't true, because it's completely different than outright lying about what you are working on
- echoangle 3y agoWould you consider it lying if he made optimistic promises while knowing they were impossible?
- arandomusername 3y ago
- jrflowers 3y agoThis is a great question. Apropos of nothing it is important to proactively ask for the definition of lies be adjusted to exclude a large portion of his public statements, which is a very normal thing to do when discussing anyone’s honesty. That aside here is a cool website I’ve found https://elonmusk.today/ https://elonmusk.today/
- mrkeen 3y agoFull self-driving
- peutetre 3y ago> And let's not consider optimistic goals as lying It's no longer "optimism" when you've been telling the same lie for 10 years: https://motherfrunker.ca/fsd/ https://motherfrunker.ca/fsd/ His own self imposed deadlines were never met, even when he repeatedly changed them to new deadlines. Tesla's "full self-driving" is not and never has been full self-driving.
- asdajksah2123 3y agoWell unless Reuters just made up these 3 sources they aren't lying. Even if what they're claiming is false, the most likely reason is that they've been fed wrong info by their sources. But that's not what Elon is claiming. He's claiming that Reuters is knowingly printing information they know to be false.
- arandomusername 3y agoVerifying sources is a huge responsibility of news networks. You can get a source for anything you want, and they should be held reliable (in terms of respect, maybe not by law) for publishing information from sources that are false. IF (and that's the IF, not saying it's the case) Tesla did not drop plans to build $25k EVs, then people should criticize reuters for getting it wrong.
- VerminOctopus1 3y agoThe man has lied and mislead numerous times, kind of hard to take his word on anything
- kernal 3y agoReuters has become a propaganda arm. They have no credibility.
- 2OEH8eoCRo0 3y agoSpeaking of claiming things without proof...
- peutetre 3y agoHere is Musk's credibility as the owner of a media company: https://mashable.com/article/elon-musk-x-twitter-ai-chatbot-grok-fake-news-trending-explore https://mashable.com/article/elon-musk-x-twitter-ai-chatbot-...
- dragontamer 3y agoElon Musk didn't even deny the claims. He just released Ad Hominem. It'd be far more believable if Elon Musk could say _where_ Reuters was lying. But he's being vague because he knows he can't get specific without giving away the truth. It seems clear to me that the truth is something that Elon Musk doesn't want to say in public. No one just responds "You're Lying" in today's environment. People say *specific* things like "Model 2 is still on track for a release in 2026", or other specific kind of statement. The "Reuters is lying" post from Elon Musk is hilariously bad even at face value.
- pfannkuchen 3y agoHe’s been wrong about self driving timeline a lot but do you really think he doesn’t believe it himself? I feel like this is actually typical of ambitious engineering projects, they are always over time and budget and whoever proposed it almost always turns out to have been over optimistic. I have been in this position myself a bunch of times, albeit at a much smaller scale of course.
- TheAlchemist 3y agoIf you follow Musk and Tesla for some time, you should know that if there was even a slightest inaccuracy in Reuters claims, Musk would already be filling a 'thermonuclear lawsuit'. The fact that he just says 'Reuters is lying' means that they are 100% right.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- loudmax 3y agoThe 2024 Prius Prime has an MSRP starting around $33k. So about $8k more expensive than the hypothetical $25k Tesla, though it does have the advantage of actually existing today. It has about a 40 mile range on electric. When the battery runs out, it switches to gas, where it gets about 50mpg. Car and Driver rates it a 10/10. I'm very pleased with my 2018 Prius Prime. It only has about a 25 mile electric range, but I have short commute to work so it works out well in my case. Most of my driving is in electric mode and the car is very responsive with quick acceleration. When the car switches to gas I'm reminded that it's a Prius, not a sports car, but it's worth it for me. I refill the tank maybe once every three or four months. It's one of the cleanest cars on the road.
- seanmcdirmid 3y agoIf you want economy and to save the planet, a Prius is probably the way to go for a long time. But electric mode all the time is nice from a fun perspective. I think EVs are just great drives.
- dragontamer 3y agohttps://www.aceee.org/greener-cars https://www.aceee.org/greener-cars #1 on the Greener Cars list. Running the math, its clear that ACEEE assumes you're 100% Electric. According to brief Reddit searches, it seems like Prius Prime 2024 is closer to 75% electric / 25% gasoline in practice. (You could *theoretically* stay in 100% electric mode since its just one button click... but 11-second 0-to-60 time is pretty bad, so many people prefer to be in Hybrid mode instead) That's still quite good though. And if you've got a lot of city driving (ex: 0-to-30 times), then 100% EV mode button is probably pleasurable. But if you have a highway or two as your commute, you'll want the ICE engine part of Prius Prime to get you up to speed. -------- Still, Prius Prime is incredibly efficient. In 100% gas mode, it still scores 64 Green Score due to its lack of rare-earth metals in its EV motors, its smaller 13.6kW-hr battery pack (less Lithium/Cobalt being mines), and far lighter weight than most EVs. And at 130+ MPGe, its going to use less electricity than most EVs (even highly efficient ones like Leaf). So all in all, Prius Prime is likely the most environmentally friendly vehicle you can buy in practice (even after correcting ACEEE's mistake of 100% EV assumption on this vehicle). ------- The only real downside is that most drivers don't plan to use the PHEV part, and instead focus on the Hybrid part. At which point, the Corolla Hybrid or Crown Hybrids are better vehicles.
- n3dm 3y agoWasn't the model 3 supposed to be $30k? Why would they only make another vehicle only 5k less than the other one?
- seanmcdirmid 3y agoThe Model 3 is $36k in China, $38k in the USA. They've missed the mark a bit, so a $25k vehicle might be welcome, especially in developing economies.
- Dig1t 3y agoWell, adjusting for the inflation we’ve seen over the past few years, the price is actually not very far from 30k in pre-pandemic times.
- dublinben 3y agoThey've already been beaten to the punch by BYD and their multiple cars under $20k. They even have a small hatchback for less than $10k! https://electrek.co/2024/03/06/byd-launches-cheaper-seagull-ev-9700-price/ https://electrek.co/2024/03/06/byd-launches-cheaper-seagull-...
- seanmcdirmid 3y agoSure, but Tesla could always compete against BYD here if they wanted to. There might not be much profit in it, however, and Tesla has a bit better reputation at the high end whereas BYD might still be struggling to sell its higher priced vehicles (for now).
- mandeepj 3y ago> They've missed the mark a bit So, $25k car would actually be $30+k
- MichaelMug 3y agoWould this have to do with ease of getting car loans? My coworkers and social circle all have $500-$1000/mo. car payments, and some have two car payments in that range. And the MSRP of these cars are 75k+. So it seems there is no incentive for an auto manufacture to make a car less than $45k.
- Shawnj2 3y agoNew cars in most cases are basically a scam and you should get used and prices are much more reasonable there
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- MichaelMug 3y agoCompletely agree.