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> University of Iowa Police Detective Ian Mallory.. tested the father’s DNA against Woods’ DNA. The test proved Woods was the man’s son. Such an obvious thing

by achow 3y ago

> University of Iowa Police Detective Ian Mallory.. tested the father’s DNA against Woods’ DNA. The test proved Woods was the man’s son. Such an obvious thing to do. Why it had to reach to University police for this to be initiated, why LA police did not do this at the start? Why the judge who sent the real Woods to mental hospital asked this to be done before giving that 'judgement'?

yieldcrv 3y ago
homeless with no money and no representation gets you these results really embarrassing for the California system, I want to know if there is any path for correcting this given the Iowa judgement and the Federal judgement
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
michaelt 3y ago
Theoretically, I believe (in addition to the police's duty to get the right guy) the accused is supposed to have a defence attorney who goes looking for exculpatory evidence. AIUI America has an "adversarial" legal system, where the court is not involved in investigating the facts of the case. Instead, the defence and prosecution each make the strongest possible case and the judge and jury have to make their decision based on the evidence presented to them. For example the judge and jury don't get to question witnesses directly. In contrast, Germany has an "inquisitorial" justice system, where the judges are actively involved in investigating the facts of the case and get to question witnesses and suchlike.
- ngcc_hk 3y ago
  May be it is good. But sound bad. Got a lot of these in Hong Kong and you wonder, can the judge be biased in these.
RecycledEle 3y ago
There are rarely any real tests performed. There was a story on HN recently about a scumbag attorney who would think his client was lying then would prevent the evidence from being tested There can be no due process until every piece of evidence is documented publicly, tested, and the test results are posted publicly. I have had cops claim they needed a DNA sample from me, then they went to their car and said maybe 3 words to another cop there before coming back and reporting DNA test results that were obviously made up. Until it is a felony for anyone associated with The System to lie or to fail to perform all forensic tests, we will have corruption without end.
crossroadsguy 3y ago
Because when it's a legal system and not a justice system, the motivations and goals are different. It's solving the case vs closing the case. Like in the IT - how many bugs fixed vs how many bugs closed ;-)
nisse72 3y ago
Along the same lines, if the father was still alive, could he not vouch for his son at some point?
profsummergig 3y ago
How did they have such easy access to the father's DNA?
- wil421 3y ago
  A private detective acquired it. Most likely he rummaged through some trash.
- ChrisClark 3y ago
  They asked the father for it.
  - croes 3y ago
    They couldn't ask: "Is this your son?"
    - JumpCrisscross 3y ago
      > They couldn't ask: "Is this your son?" If the father didn't want to see the son, probably not.
      - fbdab103 3y ago
        When you are before a judge who is questioning your identity, seems like the time to pull out all the stops. Childhood friends, neighbors, pastor, estranged parents.
        317070 3y ago
        That is asking for a lot of executive decision making for people who might have no more bandwidth left due to more urgent matters.
        guizzy 3y ago
        Considering how the real Woods was homeless and took over 30 years to even try to do anything about it, I think it's fair to assume he didn't have much, if any, social capital to draw on.
matthewaveryusa 3y ago
My guess is LAPD deals with drugged up violent stupid crime every day and some nut job homeless guy making crazy claims 99.99% of the time is just crazy, so why bother? On the other hand it's an interesting case for a Uni Iowa PD detective that has to deal with underage college kids buying beer?
- octodog 3y ago
  Well, yes. Bias and laziness. Not behaviours that are acceptable in the justice system.
  - alwa 3y ago
    It may also be that establishing which people you need to sample to substantiate somebody’s claims of lineage, gathering the consent and the samples (potentially across jurisdictions), testing to judicial standards, and procuring expert interpretation involves a fair amount of professionals’ time and energy, as well as substantial cost. It seems like much of the judicial system depends on things being largely within the realm of the reasonably imaginable, and this crime is so weird. I mean—sustaining that level of imposture for 35 years? A sane-seeming person being able to document 35 years of living under this name, in formal paperwork that’s legible to the state? When is that ever the most likely explanation? I think back over the number of marginal people I’ve met, many of whom are in altered mental states either temporary or permanent, who claim to be secretly Rothschilds, or spurned princes, or reincarnated deities, or representatives of extraterrestrial species… while the long delay in applying technology here delayed the fix to a travesty, I understand why the policy for the routine use of that technology may be what it is. If anything, I’d be curious how the detective got authorization to apply so much time and so many resources to running this claim to ground.
    - Ekaros 3y ago
      This is why any identification period should start from birth. Parents and relatives, possible kindergarten, home addresses, schools, etc. Something that might be much harder for the thieve to remember. And too many failures in these should destroy any later evidence completely.

by achow 3y ago

yieldcrv 3y ago

homeless with no money and no representation gets you these results really embarrassing for the California system, I want to know if there is any path for correcting this given the Iowa judgement and the Federal judgement

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

michaelt 3y ago

Theoretically, I believe (in addition to the police's duty to get the right guy) the accused is supposed to have a defence attorney who goes looking for exculpatory evidence. AIUI America has an "adversarial" legal system, where the court is not involved in investigating the facts of the case. Instead, the defence and prosecution each make the strongest possible case and the judge and jury have to make their decision based on the evidence presented to them. For example the judge and jury don't get to question witnesses directly. In contrast, Germany has an "inquisitorial" justice system, where the judges are actively involved in investigating the facts of the case and get to question witnesses and suchlike.

ngcc_hk 3y ago
May be it is good. But sound bad. Got a lot of these in Hong Kong and you wonder, can the judge be biased in these.

RecycledEle 3y ago

There are rarely any real tests performed. There was a story on HN recently about a scumbag attorney who would think his client was lying then would prevent the evidence from being tested There can be no due process until every piece of evidence is documented publicly, tested, and the test results are posted publicly. I have had cops claim they needed a DNA sample from me, then they went to their car and said maybe 3 words to another cop there before coming back and reporting DNA test results that were obviously made up. Until it is a felony for anyone associated with The System to lie or to fail to perform all forensic tests, we will have corruption without end.

crossroadsguy 3y ago

Because when it's a legal system and not a justice system, the motivations and goals are different. It's solving the case vs closing the case. Like in the IT - how many bugs fixed vs how many bugs closed ;-)

nisse72 3y ago

Along the same lines, if the father was still alive, could he not vouch for his son at some point?

profsummergig 3y ago

How did they have such easy access to the father's DNA?

wil421 3y ago
A private detective acquired it. Most likely he rummaged through some trash.
ChrisClark 3y ago
They asked the father for it.
- croes 3y ago
  They couldn't ask: "Is this your son?"
  - JumpCrisscross 3y ago
    > They couldn't ask: "Is this your son?" If the father didn't want to see the son, probably not.
    - fbdab103 3y ago
      When you are before a judge who is questioning your identity, seems like the time to pull out all the stops. Childhood friends, neighbors, pastor, estranged parents.
      - 317070 3y ago
        That is asking for a lot of executive decision making for people who might have no more bandwidth left due to more urgent matters.
      - guizzy 3y ago
        Considering how the real Woods was homeless and took over 30 years to even try to do anything about it, I think it's fair to assume he didn't have much, if any, social capital to draw on.

matthewaveryusa 3y ago

My guess is LAPD deals with drugged up violent stupid crime every day and some nut job homeless guy making crazy claims 99.99% of the time is just crazy, so why bother? On the other hand it's an interesting case for a Uni Iowa PD detective that has to deal with underage college kids buying beer?

octodog 3y ago
Well, yes. Bias and laziness. Not behaviours that are acceptable in the justice system.
- alwa 3y ago
  It may also be that establishing which people you need to sample to substantiate somebody’s claims of lineage, gathering the consent and the samples (potentially across jurisdictions), testing to judicial standards, and procuring expert interpretation involves a fair amount of professionals’ time and energy, as well as substantial cost. It seems like much of the judicial system depends on things being largely within the realm of the reasonably imaginable, and this crime is so weird. I mean—sustaining that level of imposture for 35 years? A sane-seeming person being able to document 35 years of living under this name, in formal paperwork that’s legible to the state? When is that ever the most likely explanation? I think back over the number of marginal people I’ve met, many of whom are in altered mental states either temporary or permanent, who claim to be secretly Rothschilds, or spurned princes, or reincarnated deities, or representatives of extraterrestrial species… while the long delay in applying technology here delayed the fix to a travesty, I understand why the policy for the routine use of that technology may be what it is. If anything, I’d be curious how the detective got authorization to apply so much time and so many resources to running this claim to ground.
  - Ekaros 3y ago
    This is why any identification period should start from birth. Parents and relatives, possible kindergarten, home addresses, schools, etc. Something that might be much harder for the thieve to remember. And too many failures in these should destroy any later evidence completely.