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The entire Palestinian war doctrine is built around attacking Israel, then running for cover of well intentioned Western public. Hamas just needs to survive thi

The entire Palestinian war doctrine is built around attacking Israel, then running for cover of well intentioned Western public. Hamas just needs to survive this to declare victory, and then the clock resets until the next cycle of violence. Hamas assumes Israel will not be allowed to have a decisive win, one where its leadership down to its last junior operatives are hunted down and eliminated.

michaelmrose 3y ago
This method of elinination can only be carried out via a Holocaust. Killing half the 2M citizens won't eliminate Hamas it will recruit 3 generations as justified in their violence as Israel. The cost of their crimes will be paid by both sides grandchildren or we will witness a final slaughter of 2M people.
- flyinglizard 3y ago
  Sorry, but I don’t buy this. West Bank is both more peaceful and less radicalized than Gaza, the difference being that the Israeli military operates in the West Bank but not in Gaza. Gaza was left unchecked to be run by Hamas and we’re seeing the results today. Long term the only solution is systematic deradicalization, but before any of that happens, Hamas needs to he destroyed and the war in Gaza needs to serve as a lesson to why peace is better than war. So far, for all Palestinian suffering, we’re not past that point.
  - michaelmrose 3y ago
    So policing the west bank has left it more peaceful so we can certainly now murder our way to peace in gaza by killing another 30,000 innocents in order to kill another 0.5% of the militants. 30,000 dead innocents can't possibly generate more than 300 soldiers among survivors. For practical purposes the degree of force required to pacify it would kill 98%. Its possible that a better policed Gaza would be more peaceful this doesn't mean present efforts are reasonable.
    - flyinglizard 3y ago
      Where did you take the figure of 0.5%? Consensus is over 12k Hamas militant dead and many more injured.
      - michaelmrose 3y ago
        I'm presuming that intelligence about the exact location of targets in a ruin is going to be far less precise and starvation and privation are going to start killing faster than bombs. Ironically the armed gang will probably weather than particular challenge than the general population. Incremental improvements in number of combatants dead is going to come at the expense of a much larger contingent of dead civilians. Hamas was I believe said to have what 50,000–60,000 fighters. By the time they get to the halfway point half the population will be dead.
  - gizmo 3y ago
    Hamas leadership can be killed, but Israel is effectively waging a was on terror by another name. And terror is a concept you can’t blow up. By inflicting horrific damage on a civilian population Israel creates more people willing to give up their lives in military struggle.
    - flyinglizard 3y ago
      The problem isn’t individuals with a wish to kill. They can’t do much damage. West Bank is full of those people and Israeli security apparatus deals with them just fune. The problem is institutional terrorism; an entire enclave of tunnels, rockets, special forces and a structure all designed to murder Israelis. That can, and has to be destroyed in a decisive way.
thisislife2 3y ago
> The entire Palestinian war doctrine is built around attacking Israel ... Let me correct that for you - The entire Palestinian resistance is built around the idea of fighting a foreign occupation of their land. Israel is a coloniser state, and the Palestinians are justified in fighting them, even violently, for their land and existence as many other colonial countries have in the past against their oppressors. The denial that some Israelis have about this is the height of political stupidity. One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter. The problem with Israel is not PLA or Hamas, but the the right-wing religious fundamentalist Israeli-Jews that have captured power in Israel. Right-wing religious fundamentalists around the world thrive by creating a climate of fear and hate. Unless Israeli Jews and Palestinian muslims hate each other, they cannot be in power. And if you look at the history of the Israeli religious fundamentalist Jews, you will find that they have assassinated their own people, Palestinian politicians and ven foreign diplomats and leaders, to ensure that there is no peace and a climate of fear and hatred flourishes. Why do you think Netanyahu and his predecessor formulated the policy of supporting and financing Hamas when the PLA started exploring diplomatic and non-violent means of peace, and gaining international support? The reality was that that these religious fundamentalist Israeli politicians need some religious fundamentalist violent Palestinian faction to brainwash and radicalise their followers to retain power. So they deliberately create conflict. The Likud party that Netanyahu now heads, was found by religious fundamentalists in Israel who were a jewish terrorist organisation that took please in killing and slaughtering Palestinina men, women and children. Albert Einstein once warned the Israel polity about the dangers of such people capturing power in Israel because of the atrocity them committed against Palestinians in the name of Israel. It is not a co-incidence that Netanyahu and his other religious fundamentalist buddies allowed Hamas to attack Israel, when he and the right- in Israel are in a very politically precarious situation. The current war allows them to create hatred among the new generation of Israelis and Palestinians, so that they can cling on to power.
- flyinglizard 3y ago
  Sounds like you’re endorsing violence, just upset that your side is losing.
  - 3y ago

michaelmrose 3y ago

This method of elinination can only be carried out via a Holocaust. Killing half the 2M citizens won't eliminate Hamas it will recruit 3 generations as justified in their violence as Israel. The cost of their crimes will be paid by both sides grandchildren or we will witness a final slaughter of 2M people.

flyinglizard 3y ago
Sorry, but I don’t buy this. West Bank is both more peaceful and less radicalized than Gaza, the difference being that the Israeli military operates in the West Bank but not in Gaza. Gaza was left unchecked to be run by Hamas and we’re seeing the results today. Long term the only solution is systematic deradicalization, but before any of that happens, Hamas needs to he destroyed and the war in Gaza needs to serve as a lesson to why peace is better than war. So far, for all Palestinian suffering, we’re not past that point.
- michaelmrose 3y ago
  So policing the west bank has left it more peaceful so we can certainly now murder our way to peace in gaza by killing another 30,000 innocents in order to kill another 0.5% of the militants. 30,000 dead innocents can't possibly generate more than 300 soldiers among survivors. For practical purposes the degree of force required to pacify it would kill 98%. Its possible that a better policed Gaza would be more peaceful this doesn't mean present efforts are reasonable.
  - flyinglizard 3y ago
    Where did you take the figure of 0.5%? Consensus is over 12k Hamas militant dead and many more injured.
    - michaelmrose 3y ago
      I'm presuming that intelligence about the exact location of targets in a ruin is going to be far less precise and starvation and privation are going to start killing faster than bombs. Ironically the armed gang will probably weather than particular challenge than the general population. Incremental improvements in number of combatants dead is going to come at the expense of a much larger contingent of dead civilians. Hamas was I believe said to have what 50,000–60,000 fighters. By the time they get to the halfway point half the population will be dead.
- gizmo 3y ago
  Hamas leadership can be killed, but Israel is effectively waging a was on terror by another name. And terror is a concept you can’t blow up. By inflicting horrific damage on a civilian population Israel creates more people willing to give up their lives in military struggle.
  - flyinglizard 3y ago
    The problem isn’t individuals with a wish to kill. They can’t do much damage. West Bank is full of those people and Israeli security apparatus deals with them just fune. The problem is institutional terrorism; an entire enclave of tunnels, rockets, special forces and a structure all designed to murder Israelis. That can, and has to be destroyed in a decisive way.

thisislife2 3y ago

> The entire Palestinian war doctrine is built around attacking Israel ... Let me correct that for you - The entire Palestinian resistance is built around the idea of fighting a foreign occupation of their land. Israel is a coloniser state, and the Palestinians are justified in fighting them, even violently, for their land and existence as many other colonial countries have in the past against their oppressors. The denial that some Israelis have about this is the height of political stupidity. One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter. The problem with Israel is not PLA or Hamas, but the the right-wing religious fundamentalist Israeli-Jews that have captured power in Israel. Right-wing religious fundamentalists around the world thrive by creating a climate of fear and hate. Unless Israeli Jews and Palestinian muslims hate each other, they cannot be in power. And if you look at the history of the Israeli religious fundamentalist Jews, you will find that they have assassinated their own people, Palestinian politicians and ven foreign diplomats and leaders, to ensure that there is no peace and a climate of fear and hatred flourishes. Why do you think Netanyahu and his predecessor formulated the policy of supporting and financing Hamas when the PLA started exploring diplomatic and non-violent means of peace, and gaining international support? The reality was that that these religious fundamentalist Israeli politicians need some religious fundamentalist violent Palestinian faction to brainwash and radicalise their followers to retain power. So they deliberately create conflict. The Likud party that Netanyahu now heads, was found by religious fundamentalists in Israel who were a jewish terrorist organisation that took please in killing and slaughtering Palestinina men, women and children. Albert Einstein once warned the Israel polity about the dangers of such people capturing power in Israel because of the atrocity them committed against Palestinians in the name of Israel. It is not a co-incidence that Netanyahu and his other religious fundamentalist buddies allowed Hamas to attack Israel, when he and the right- in Israel are in a very politically precarious situation. The current war allows them to create hatred among the new generation of Israelis and Palestinians, so that they can cling on to power.

flyinglizard 3y ago
Sounds like you’re endorsing violence, just upset that your side is losing.
- 3y ago