9 ms·

Twitter Files Brazil

32 points by rogerthis 3y ago

diego_moita 3y ago
[flagged]
- tootie 3y ago
  Literally named after the time Elon Musk paid for a hit piece then disowned the guy who wrote it for him. I'd treat with equal skepticism.
- Trembolon 3y ago
  You are lying, Alexandre de Moraes used illicit instruments and acted against the Brazilian constitution, not just once, but multiple times he no longer followed the constitution even before January 8 an example is the infamous fake news inquiry, in which he is the judge, defendant and accuser, this is not normal in a democracy. As a supreme court judge, he has unlimited powers and has abused it, and despite not being the only judge in the country, he concentrates everything related to Bolsonaro to himself. And under Brazilian law, he is an electoral judge and a supreme court judge at the same time, he takes advantage of this to concentrate power Don't believe what the person above says, he's probably left-wing and supports the illegalities of the Brazilian supreme court.
  - guiraldelli 3y ago
    > You are lying, Alexandre de Moraes used illicit instruments and acted against the Brazilian constitution, not just once, but multiple times > > he no longer followed the constitution even before January 8 Would you please provide references for us that don't know this background? > As a supreme court judge, he has unlimited powers and has abused it, and despite not being the only judge in the country, he concentrates everything related to Bolsonaro to himself. That is not how it works. I won't even get into the separation of the "Three Powers" (legislative, executive and judiciary): he shares "the power" with other 10 supreme-court judges [1], and he is not even the president of it! Therefore, your comment seems off. > Don't believe what the person above says, he's probably left-wing and supports the illegalities of the Brazilian supreme court. That is an unfounded _ad hominem_ attack. But let us present some facts: * De Moraes is known for his conservative, and not left-wing, positions [2]; as a matter of fact, on Wikipedia it is written "Alexandre de Moraes sent armoured vehicles to suppress left-wing demonstrations." * opening the tweet's author page [3], I get suggestions of Twitter of some similar authors, such as Tucker Carson, Robert Kennedy Jr. and Libs of TikTok; a quick scan of them show they are all conservative sources; * opening the other tweets of the author [3], it is clear he is a conservative, defender of Donald Trump; let us remember that Donald Trump is an ally of Bolsonaro. It is not difficult to put it all together and see those "files" should be taken with A LOT OF GRAIN OF SALT, to put it politely. Also, it is widely known that Bolsonaro wasn't a great president, and that his supporters (and himself) intensively attack De Moraes. Besides, what a bizarre situation: Brazil got two presidents impeached, and they did not make such a steer on the legal decision. But Bolsonaro is being investigated for his attempted coup d’etat, and instead of collaborating with the Justice system, he is attacking a Supreme Court's judge. That, itself, raises a lot of suspicion on both his attitudes and the news surrounding it. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supreme_Federal_Court#Current_members https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supreme_Federal_Court#Current_... [2]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexandre_de_Moraes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexandre_de_Moraes [3]: https://twitter.com/shellenberger https://twitter.com/shellenberger
    - Trembolon 3y ago
      >That is not how it works. I won't even get into the separation of the "Three Powers" (legislative, executive and judiciary): he shares "the power" with other 10 supreme-court judges [1], and he is not even the president of it! Yes, that's how it works, it's a mistake to think that the Brazilian supreme court works like the American one in the Brazilian supreme court there is an instrument called "monocratic decision", in which a judge of the supreme court can make decisions alone. Obviously the other judges have to analyze the monocratic decision later, but until they do, the "monocratic decision" is valid. Alexandre de Moraes has already suspended Telegram in Brazil using "monocratic decision". Alexandre de Moraes has already threatened to arrest Facebook employees in Brazil, because Facebook did not want to suspend profiles worldwide, it only wanted to suspend them locally. >De Moraes is known for his conservative, and not left-wing, positions [2]; as a matter of fact, on Wikipedia it is written "Alexandre de Moraes sent armoured vehicles to suppress left-wing demonstrations." Alexandre de Moraes was conservative, he is currently leftist He appears on TV defending the fake news bill, he forced Telegram to send a positive message about the fake news bill, he ordered Telegram to delete the company's opinion on the fake news bill and put his opinion on it. This goes against the Brazilian constitution, but the supreme court has unlimited powers and any order from it will be followed by the Federal Police. Monark, a Brazilian influencer who currently lives in Miami, was fined R$300,000 (60,000 USD) by Alexandre de Moraes for not believing in electronic voting machines. This goes against the Brazilian constitution, but the supreme court has unlimited powers and any order from it will be followed by the Federal Police. > they did not make such a steer on the legal decision. That's not true. The second impeached president said at the time that it was a coup d'état, and to this day she says it was a coup d'état. The party of the second impeached president also says it was a coup d'état Brazilian freedom of expression has always been less than the American one, but De Moraes reduced it even more.
    - matheusmoreira 3y ago
      > Would you please provide references for us that don't know this background? Of course. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36543423 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36543423 This is is an informative and well referenced HN comment that captures the nature of this supreme court quite well. There were some "environmentalprogress" articles submitted to HN about this matter. Not idea how trustworthy that source is but they seemed to be quite thorough. I generally only link major news websites so I'll refrain from linking them. > I won't even get into the separation of the "Three Powers" (legislative, executive and judiciary) Doesn't matter. Separation of powers? Ha. This is Brazil. Legislative? Supreme court legislates, has been legislating for years, decades. They were all voting on the legality of abortion and drugs just months ago. This one judge even went to the actual legislators with "suggestions" on the censorship bill that he personally supported. When he didn't get his way, he used his electoral court judge position to ram it down our throats anyway. Executive? Our world touring champagne sipping socialist president would not even be in power right now were it not for these guys. They literally released him from the jail he was incarcerated at in order to take out Bolsonaro. It's not even a secret, they literally showboat about it in public. They're quite proud of it all. In fact it's probably Lula's political strategy to ally with the supreme court to impose whatever he wants on the people, just like his Venezuelan dictator buddy. Judiciary? They can't even keep themselves separate. All this began in 2019 or so when some magazine published some damning article on one of these guys. Thus began the "fake news" inquisition which is still on-going to this day half a decade later. They gave themselves seemingly unlimited powers to censor anyone they want over a magazine article or something. The supreme court itself is the victim, the investigator, the judges and the executors. It's comical. > he shares "the power" with other 10 supreme-court judges, and he is not even the president of it Guess whose name is listed as the leader of the aforementioned inquisition which greatly expanded the supreme court's powers. > But Bolsonaro is being investigated for his attempted coup d’etat, and instead of collaborating with the Justice system, he is attacking a Supreme Court's judge.
- matheusmoreira 3y ago
  > Former Brazilian president Jair Bolsonaro recently attempted a coup d'etat to overthrow Brazilian democracy. LOL if only he had had the balls to actually attempt it. Ran away to the US like the coward he is, allowed everybody who ever supported him to take the fall and still got arrested and persecuted by literal communists. It's actually pretty funny. There was no "coup". There was a protest. Identical to many others in the past, down to the "people all over the buildings" imagery. It was not the first time people have occupied the Brasília buildings and it certainly won't be the last. Just like this one for example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013_protests_in_Brazil https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013_protests_in_Brazil "High corruption in the government" indeed. The irony is palpable. > Don't trust internet influencers to know better than law professionals. I have actually met many law professionals. Always made sure to listen closely to everything they had to say. Truth is reality is actually even worse than whatever's being presented here. Sometimes they make the most innocuous sounding comments that nevertheless are reveal quite a lot about the brazilian status quo. Quite a few of the lawyers I've met were prone to expressing their frustration with the fact that "instead of interpreting the constitution, the supreme court judges decided to legislate instead". And those were the polite ones. They could get quite cynical about it. The helplessness permeates their speech like an incurable depression. The supreme court legislates. These judges got zero votes and yet they legislate. Nothing is done about it. Nothing can be done about it. Sometimes I wonder if they expected the supreme court to become the victims, the juries and the executioners too. I wonder if they were shocked at all when all this stuff went down. I wonder if they were shocked when they saw this judge approaching the actual legislators with "suggestions" in hand for the proposed censorship law, only to then ram it down people's throats by force of his "electoral court resolutions" after the law was rejected by the elected representatives of the brazilian people. This supreme court disease stretches back nearly a decade and that's just when I began to notice it. Wouldn't be surprised if it stretched back to the very creation of these institutions. > Let's imagine, hypothetically of course Yeah, let's help HN truly imagine how barbarous and uncivilized this country is. Tell me HN, how would you feel if some power tripping american judges somehow found a way to give themselves unlimited powers to "combat disinformation", only to immediately begin censoring their political enemies? How would you feel if these judges just started straight up censoring Trump and his campaign? And when Trump loses they proceed to go to conferences to publicly brag about how they personally abused their powers to defeat Trumpism? How would you feel if the supreme court judges whose literal job it is to interpret your constitution just took a big shit on it instead? And literally nothing was done about it? How disgusted would you feel? I really want to know. HN might not actually need to imagine it. Google did a little campaign against their "fake news" law which amounted to putting a small link on their home page. For that most grievous crime of "abuse of market power", these same judges censored the company. They ordered it to take it down or face totally arbitrary fines of about 200kUSD per hour until they took it down. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-05-02/brazil-judge-orders-google-ceo-to-testify-over-fake-news-bill https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-05-02/brazil-ju... https://archive.is/EdoqQ https://archive.is/EdoqQ Maybe someone here on HN caught wind of that. I don't know.
- Georgelemental 2y ago
  > conspire against democracy You mean, express their opinions? Two things can be true: Bolsonaro attacked democracy, and his opponents who are restricting freedom of speech are also attacking democracy.
1oooqooq 2y ago
lol. all the orders are mostly public. the former president is about to be jailed. this post is mostly dog whistle. musk is associated with former president. this is all part of their crazy defense strategy https://www.the-independent.com/news/world/americas/us-politics/bolsonaro-ap-elon-musk-brazil-sao-paulo-b2094326.html https://www.the-independent.com/news/world/americas/us-polit...

32 points by rogerthis 3y ago

diego_moita 3y ago

[flagged]

tootie 3y ago
Literally named after the time Elon Musk paid for a hit piece then disowned the guy who wrote it for him. I'd treat with equal skepticism.
Trembolon 3y ago
You are lying, Alexandre de Moraes used illicit instruments and acted against the Brazilian constitution, not just once, but multiple times he no longer followed the constitution even before January 8 an example is the infamous fake news inquiry, in which he is the judge, defendant and accuser, this is not normal in a democracy. As a supreme court judge, he has unlimited powers and has abused it, and despite not being the only judge in the country, he concentrates everything related to Bolsonaro to himself. And under Brazilian law, he is an electoral judge and a supreme court judge at the same time, he takes advantage of this to concentrate power Don't believe what the person above says, he's probably left-wing and supports the illegalities of the Brazilian supreme court.
- guiraldelli 3y ago
  > You are lying, Alexandre de Moraes used illicit instruments and acted against the Brazilian constitution, not just once, but multiple times > > he no longer followed the constitution even before January 8 Would you please provide references for us that don't know this background? > As a supreme court judge, he has unlimited powers and has abused it, and despite not being the only judge in the country, he concentrates everything related to Bolsonaro to himself. That is not how it works. I won't even get into the separation of the "Three Powers" (legislative, executive and judiciary): he shares "the power" with other 10 supreme-court judges [1], and he is not even the president of it! Therefore, your comment seems off. > Don't believe what the person above says, he's probably left-wing and supports the illegalities of the Brazilian supreme court. That is an unfounded _ad hominem_ attack. But let us present some facts: * De Moraes is known for his conservative, and not left-wing, positions [2]; as a matter of fact, on Wikipedia it is written "Alexandre de Moraes sent armoured vehicles to suppress left-wing demonstrations." * opening the tweet's author page [3], I get suggestions of Twitter of some similar authors, such as Tucker Carson, Robert Kennedy Jr. and Libs of TikTok; a quick scan of them show they are all conservative sources; * opening the other tweets of the author [3], it is clear he is a conservative, defender of Donald Trump; let us remember that Donald Trump is an ally of Bolsonaro. It is not difficult to put it all together and see those "files" should be taken with A LOT OF GRAIN OF SALT, to put it politely. Also, it is widely known that Bolsonaro wasn't a great president, and that his supporters (and himself) intensively attack De Moraes. Besides, what a bizarre situation: Brazil got two presidents impeached, and they did not make such a steer on the legal decision. But Bolsonaro is being investigated for his attempted coup d’etat, and instead of collaborating with the Justice system, he is attacking a Supreme Court's judge. That, itself, raises a lot of suspicion on both his attitudes and the news surrounding it. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supreme_Federal_Court#Current_members https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supreme_Federal_Court#Current_... [2]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexandre_de_Moraes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexandre_de_Moraes [3]: https://twitter.com/shellenberger https://twitter.com/shellenberger
  - Trembolon 3y ago
    >That is not how it works. I won't even get into the separation of the "Three Powers" (legislative, executive and judiciary): he shares "the power" with other 10 supreme-court judges [1], and he is not even the president of it! Yes, that's how it works, it's a mistake to think that the Brazilian supreme court works like the American one in the Brazilian supreme court there is an instrument called "monocratic decision", in which a judge of the supreme court can make decisions alone. Obviously the other judges have to analyze the monocratic decision later, but until they do, the "monocratic decision" is valid. Alexandre de Moraes has already suspended Telegram in Brazil using "monocratic decision". Alexandre de Moraes has already threatened to arrest Facebook employees in Brazil, because Facebook did not want to suspend profiles worldwide, it only wanted to suspend them locally. >De Moraes is known for his conservative, and not left-wing, positions [2]; as a matter of fact, on Wikipedia it is written "Alexandre de Moraes sent armoured vehicles to suppress left-wing demonstrations." Alexandre de Moraes was conservative, he is currently leftist He appears on TV defending the fake news bill, he forced Telegram to send a positive message about the fake news bill, he ordered Telegram to delete the company's opinion on the fake news bill and put his opinion on it. This goes against the Brazilian constitution, but the supreme court has unlimited powers and any order from it will be followed by the Federal Police. Monark, a Brazilian influencer who currently lives in Miami, was fined R$300,000 (60,000 USD) by Alexandre de Moraes for not believing in electronic voting machines. This goes against the Brazilian constitution, but the supreme court has unlimited powers and any order from it will be followed by the Federal Police. > they did not make such a steer on the legal decision. That's not true. The second impeached president said at the time that it was a coup d'état, and to this day she says it was a coup d'état. The party of the second impeached president also says it was a coup d'état Brazilian freedom of expression has always been less than the American one, but De Moraes reduced it even more.
  - matheusmoreira 3y ago
    > Would you please provide references for us that don't know this background? Of course. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36543423 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36543423 This is is an informative and well referenced HN comment that captures the nature of this supreme court quite well. There were some "environmentalprogress" articles submitted to HN about this matter. Not idea how trustworthy that source is but they seemed to be quite thorough. I generally only link major news websites so I'll refrain from linking them. > I won't even get into the separation of the "Three Powers" (legislative, executive and judiciary) Doesn't matter. Separation of powers? Ha. This is Brazil. Legislative? Supreme court legislates, has been legislating for years, decades. They were all voting on the legality of abortion and drugs just months ago. This one judge even went to the actual legislators with "suggestions" on the censorship bill that he personally supported. When he didn't get his way, he used his electoral court judge position to ram it down our throats anyway. Executive? Our world touring champagne sipping socialist president would not even be in power right now were it not for these guys. They literally released him from the jail he was incarcerated at in order to take out Bolsonaro. It's not even a secret, they literally showboat about it in public. They're quite proud of it all. In fact it's probably Lula's political strategy to ally with the supreme court to impose whatever he wants on the people, just like his Venezuelan dictator buddy. Judiciary? They can't even keep themselves separate. All this began in 2019 or so when some magazine published some damning article on one of these guys. Thus began the "fake news" inquisition which is still on-going to this day half a decade later. They gave themselves seemingly unlimited powers to censor anyone they want over a magazine article or something. The supreme court itself is the victim, the investigator, the judges and the executors. It's comical. > he shares "the power" with other 10 supreme-court judges, and he is not even the president of it Guess whose name is listed as the leader of the aforementioned inquisition which greatly expanded the supreme court's powers. > But Bolsonaro is being investigated for his attempted coup d’etat, and instead of collaborating with the Justice system, he is attacking a Supreme Court's judge.
matheusmoreira 3y ago
> Former Brazilian president Jair Bolsonaro recently attempted a coup d'etat to overthrow Brazilian democracy. LOL if only he had had the balls to actually attempt it. Ran away to the US like the coward he is, allowed everybody who ever supported him to take the fall and still got arrested and persecuted by literal communists. It's actually pretty funny. There was no "coup". There was a protest. Identical to many others in the past, down to the "people all over the buildings" imagery. It was not the first time people have occupied the Brasília buildings and it certainly won't be the last. Just like this one for example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013_protests_in_Brazil https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013_protests_in_Brazil "High corruption in the government" indeed. The irony is palpable. > Don't trust internet influencers to know better than law professionals. I have actually met many law professionals. Always made sure to listen closely to everything they had to say. Truth is reality is actually even worse than whatever's being presented here. Sometimes they make the most innocuous sounding comments that nevertheless are reveal quite a lot about the brazilian status quo. Quite a few of the lawyers I've met were prone to expressing their frustration with the fact that "instead of interpreting the constitution, the supreme court judges decided to legislate instead". And those were the polite ones. They could get quite cynical about it. The helplessness permeates their speech like an incurable depression. The supreme court legislates. These judges got zero votes and yet they legislate. Nothing is done about it. Nothing can be done about it. Sometimes I wonder if they expected the supreme court to become the victims, the juries and the executioners too. I wonder if they were shocked at all when all this stuff went down. I wonder if they were shocked when they saw this judge approaching the actual legislators with "suggestions" in hand for the proposed censorship law, only to then ram it down people's throats by force of his "electoral court resolutions" after the law was rejected by the elected representatives of the brazilian people. This supreme court disease stretches back nearly a decade and that's just when I began to notice it. Wouldn't be surprised if it stretched back to the very creation of these institutions. > Let's imagine, hypothetically of course Yeah, let's help HN truly imagine how barbarous and uncivilized this country is. Tell me HN, how would you feel if some power tripping american judges somehow found a way to give themselves unlimited powers to "combat disinformation", only to immediately begin censoring their political enemies? How would you feel if these judges just started straight up censoring Trump and his campaign? And when Trump loses they proceed to go to conferences to publicly brag about how they personally abused their powers to defeat Trumpism? How would you feel if the supreme court judges whose literal job it is to interpret your constitution just took a big shit on it instead? And literally nothing was done about it? How disgusted would you feel? I really want to know. HN might not actually need to imagine it. Google did a little campaign against their "fake news" law which amounted to putting a small link on their home page. For that most grievous crime of "abuse of market power", these same judges censored the company. They ordered it to take it down or face totally arbitrary fines of about 200kUSD per hour until they took it down. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-05-02/brazil-judge-orders-google-ceo-to-testify-over-fake-news-bill https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-05-02/brazil-ju... https://archive.is/EdoqQ https://archive.is/EdoqQ Maybe someone here on HN caught wind of that. I don't know.
Georgelemental 2y ago
> conspire against democracy You mean, express their opinions? Two things can be true: Bolsonaro attacked democracy, and his opponents who are restricting freedom of speech are also attacking democracy.

1oooqooq 2y ago

lol. all the orders are mostly public. the former president is about to be jailed. this post is mostly dog whistle. musk is associated with former president. this is all part of their crazy defense strategy https://www.the-independent.com/news/world/americas/us-politics/bolsonaro-ap-elon-musk-brazil-sao-paulo-b2094326.html https://www.the-independent.com/news/world/americas/us-polit...