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Nah. We aren't creating rutters to navigate tough waters for enforcing colonialism. Sometimes the past doesn't predict the future with much confidence.

by tomrod 3y ago

Teever 3y ago
We're going to be using these maps to expand deep sea mining that will certainly result in the poisoning of innocent people in remote regions of the world whn their food sources become contaminated from whatever we dredge up. It's colonialism and exploitation of a different kind. I'm not expecting you to single handedly put a stop to it or anything but it's not unreasonable to expect that you can recognize and acknowledge it instead of pretending it doesn't exist and saying that those sort of things only happened a long time ago.
- non-chalad 3y ago
  So compete with eco-friendly dredging, and show them a better way?
  - Teever 3y ago
    But you know that 'eco-friendly dredging' in this context is an oxymoron on par with 'consensual rape.'
    - non-chalad 3y ago
      Then use caissons and hyperbaric chambers; Mine the old fashioned way. You could make a floating island to service the system; They can be quite cheap https://ventivefloathouse.com/ https://ventivefloathouse.com/
      - Teever 3y ago
        Without getting into whether or not this technology that you're bringing up out of no where is the panacea to all the problems with seabed mining that we're talking about, what sort of mechanisms do you propose we use to ensure that the people who mine will use these safer technologies?
- nerdponx 3y ago
  "You gotta tell people... The oceans are dying, plankton's dying... it's people. Soylent Green is made out of people."
  - LargoLasskhyfv 3y ago
    Yäss, Yäss. By employing alcalic hydrolysis and growing fungi from that sludge. Maybe with some fried bugs & worms added. Soylent Green Sesame?
    - nerdponx 3y ago
      As long as they figure out the prion safety issue, "going home" and then being turned into food doesn't sound like such a bad system really.
itishappy 3y ago
> Since the ISA's inception in 1994, the Authority has approved over two dozen ocean floor mining exploration contracts in the Atlantic, Pacific and Indian Oceans, with the majority of contracts for exploration in the Clarion-Clipperton Zone between Hawaii and Mexico, where polymetallic nodules contain copper, cobalt and other minerals used to power electric batteries. To date, the Authority has not authorized any commercial mining contracts as it deliberates over regulations amid global calls for a moratorium on deep sea mining. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Seabed_Authority https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Seabed_Authority
- refulgentis 3y ago
  Is there some additional context that got cut out? I'm not sure this adds anything to the observation that there's a distinction between this and British empire colonialism.
  - itishappy 3y ago
    What drove colonialism? It wasn't a desire to meet new and interesting cultures. It was land for development and resources for extraction. What's driving our current exploration binge? Land for development and resources for extraction. Regardless of intent, they share many of the same incentive structures. That being said, I'm quite surprised by the partner list from the project website. I may be discounting conservation from my analysis. https://seabed2030.org/our-partners/ https://seabed2030.org/our-partners/
    - refulgentis 3y ago
      +1 on partners. Riffing on that: my priors entering are "oh I've been reading an article in the Economist, every 2 months, for 2 years about how scaling green energy requires deep sea bed mining, and it's incredibly non-invasive because they just sit in coalesced lumps down there" From that perspective, comparing it to subjugating human populations seems like a non-sequitur, though one I respect.
      - 3y ago
ramesh31 3y ago
Maps exist to define ownership. Everything else is tertiary to that. Lewis and Clarke weren't "blazing a trail" for the pioneers. They were measuring the land that the US government had just purchased.
- JumpCrisscross 3y ago
  > Maps exist to define ownership ...you've never used a map in a different way? When we draw maps of the galaxy, are we imminently planning on dividing it up?
  - ramesh31 3y ago
    >you've never used a map in a different way? Sure. But the USGS doesn't publish precise up to date topological maps of every square inch of the United States for the purpose of guiding backpackers with compasses. They do it to divide up political boundaries, delimit resource rights, and guide commercial activity. This goes for just about any other large scale mapping effort (on earth).
- rocqua 3y ago
  These are charts, they exist mainly to aid in navigation with secondary benefits to exploration for resource extraction. Besides, maps are very much about taxation, balistics, and administration. Much more than just ownership.

Nah. We aren't creating rutters to navigate tough waters for enforcing colonialism. Sometimes the past doesn't predict the future with much confidence.

by tomrod 3y ago

Nah. We aren't creating rutters to navigate tough waters for enforcing colonialism. Sometimes the past doesn't predict the future with much confidence.

Teever 3y ago

We're going to be using these maps to expand deep sea mining that will certainly result in the poisoning of innocent people in remote regions of the world whn their food sources become contaminated from whatever we dredge up. It's colonialism and exploitation of a different kind. I'm not expecting you to single handedly put a stop to it or anything but it's not unreasonable to expect that you can recognize and acknowledge it instead of pretending it doesn't exist and saying that those sort of things only happened a long time ago.

non-chalad 3y ago
So compete with eco-friendly dredging, and show them a better way?
- Teever 3y ago
  But you know that 'eco-friendly dredging' in this context is an oxymoron on par with 'consensual rape.'
  - non-chalad 3y ago
    Then use caissons and hyperbaric chambers; Mine the old fashioned way. You could make a floating island to service the system; They can be quite cheap https://ventivefloathouse.com/ https://ventivefloathouse.com/
    - Teever 3y ago
      Without getting into whether or not this technology that you're bringing up out of no where is the panacea to all the problems with seabed mining that we're talking about, what sort of mechanisms do you propose we use to ensure that the people who mine will use these safer technologies?
nerdponx 3y ago
"You gotta tell people... The oceans are dying, plankton's dying... it's people. Soylent Green is made out of people."
- LargoLasskhyfv 3y ago
  Yäss, Yäss. By employing alcalic hydrolysis and growing fungi from that sludge. Maybe with some fried bugs & worms added. Soylent Green Sesame?
  - nerdponx 3y ago
    As long as they figure out the prion safety issue, "going home" and then being turned into food doesn't sound like such a bad system really.

itishappy 3y ago

> Since the ISA's inception in 1994, the Authority has approved over two dozen ocean floor mining exploration contracts in the Atlantic, Pacific and Indian Oceans, with the majority of contracts for exploration in the Clarion-Clipperton Zone between Hawaii and Mexico, where polymetallic nodules contain copper, cobalt and other minerals used to power electric batteries. To date, the Authority has not authorized any commercial mining contracts as it deliberates over regulations amid global calls for a moratorium on deep sea mining. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Seabed_Authority https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Seabed_Authority

refulgentis 3y ago
Is there some additional context that got cut out? I'm not sure this adds anything to the observation that there's a distinction between this and British empire colonialism.
- itishappy 3y ago
  What drove colonialism? It wasn't a desire to meet new and interesting cultures. It was land for development and resources for extraction. What's driving our current exploration binge? Land for development and resources for extraction. Regardless of intent, they share many of the same incentive structures. That being said, I'm quite surprised by the partner list from the project website. I may be discounting conservation from my analysis. https://seabed2030.org/our-partners/ https://seabed2030.org/our-partners/
  - refulgentis 3y ago
    +1 on partners. Riffing on that: my priors entering are "oh I've been reading an article in the Economist, every 2 months, for 2 years about how scaling green energy requires deep sea bed mining, and it's incredibly non-invasive because they just sit in coalesced lumps down there" From that perspective, comparing it to subjugating human populations seems like a non-sequitur, though one I respect.
    - 3y ago

ramesh31 3y ago

Maps exist to define ownership. Everything else is tertiary to that. Lewis and Clarke weren't "blazing a trail" for the pioneers. They were measuring the land that the US government had just purchased.

JumpCrisscross 3y ago
> Maps exist to define ownership ...you've never used a map in a different way? When we draw maps of the galaxy, are we imminently planning on dividing it up?
- ramesh31 3y ago
  >you've never used a map in a different way? Sure. But the USGS doesn't publish precise up to date topological maps of every square inch of the United States for the purpose of guiding backpackers with compasses. They do it to divide up political boundaries, delimit resource rights, and guide commercial activity. This goes for just about any other large scale mapping effort (on earth).
rocqua 3y ago
These are charts, they exist mainly to aid in navigation with secondary benefits to exploration for resource extraction. Besides, maps are very much about taxation, balistics, and administration. Much more than just ownership.