7 ms·

Upsetting how quickly the other thread was flagged and downranked.

segasaturn 3y ago
I don't understand why it was flagged, obviously it is a sensitive topic but AI being used to kill people is very clearly a HN-worthy topic
- calibas 3y ago
  It was flagged because someone doesn't want people seeing this. It's also currently dropping rank on the front page, despite being heavily upvoted.
  - luketaylor 3y ago
    Now removed from the front page even without being labeled as flagged.
    - YeGoblynQueenne 3y ago
      Discussions with lots of comments are routinely pushed down the stack. dang has commented on that a few times I think. Anyway it's not the subject, just the raw numbers of the activity.
- nemo44x 3y ago
  Yeah, you'd hope that a higher level conversation about the use of technology in war, pros/cons, etc could supersede personal political beliefs about this particular conflict. We don't need people's moral judgements on who is right or wrong in this particular case but it would be neat to hear people's thoughts on utilizing information technology as a weapon of war.
  - ilikehurdles 3y ago
    One would hope, but I’ve read all 21 comments in this post and not a single one of them meets your criteria.
harimau777 3y ago
Is there any consequence for inappropriate flagging?
- supposemaybe 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - 2OEH8eoCRo0 3y ago
    It got 98 points in 20 minutes but sure, IDF troll armies.
    - croes 3y ago
      How do 98 refute a IDF troll army? It got 98 points but also was flagged multiple times.
  - kazmer_ak 3y ago
    [flagged]
- ykonstant 3y ago
  Not in this instance, I assume. People flagging too much can result in shadowbanning, but perhaps the mods think that flagging posts that might host heated political-religious discussion is ok (even if they don't have such discussion, and even if they are on-topic for HN). I also don't think there is a way to complain about abusing flags other than emailing the mods; I have no clue about the effectiveness of this complaint.
  - oefrha 3y ago
    I have emailed many time over the years. Got a response from dang every single time. Several accounts lost vouching privileges thanks to my emails, among other things — they were vouching clearly guidelines-breaking crap, I drew dang’s attention, and they were penalized. So, if you have a concern, just email.
dguest 3y ago
Let's see how long it takes this time! I'd give it 50% odds of lasting 12 minutes. Edit: Flagged after less than 9 minutes, I overestimated!
- theEntroX 3y ago
  and then un-flagged right after?
  - dguest 3y ago
    It seems so. What a ride!
  - mtlmtlmtlmtl 3y ago
    I vouched for it.
    - dfxm12 3y ago
      Where's this option?
      - mtlmtlmtlmtl 3y ago
        Usually the same place the flag button is. It only appears when a post or commen is flagged/dead.
        dfxm12 3y ago
        It wasn't there for me. I vaguely remember it being there before though.
        mtlmtlmtlmtl 3y ago
        I think sometimes you have to click on the date to go directly to the post/comment, in order to see it.
  - 3y ago
hn_throwaway_99 3y ago
As someone who sees both sides of this, and as someone who didn't understand this for some time, it's important to understand that one reason a story is likely to get flagged is because users think it's highly unlikely to lead to productive discussion. It doesn't mean it's a bad story, or even unworthy of discussion, but many types of stories seem to, pretty predictably, lead to a cesspool of comments where it's clear most folks have no desire to listen to opposing points of view. FWIW, I found this to be a really interesting story that I didn't previously know about, so I hope it stays up, and this is a story I'd be willing to vouch for.
- consumer451 3y ago
  There is a system in place for flagging specific comments by users. Admins can, and do, prune entire branches of comments off of posts. These two methods would take a bit more work than just banishing the topic entirely, but with topics like the first time that "AI" kill lists are publicized, maybe exceptions should be made.
- pphysch 3y ago
  Successful flagging doesn't (just) disable comments, it disables discovery/access. For a high quality piece of tech-related investigative journalism like this, flagging is simply censorship.
- dfxm12 3y ago
  If one don't want to engage, the hide button isn't too far from the flag button. It's important that people have the option to speak freely and openly about this topic, since so many places shut down any conversation that shows sympathy for Palestinians and/or doesn't paint Israel as unequivocally morally good. This is one of the reasons Israel has been able to get away with this behavior for so long. Considering what regularly doesn't get flagged on this site related to AI, conflict, etc., this topic seems to fit in.
- throwaway74432 3y ago
  >it's highly unlikely to lead to productive discussion. I guess all you have to do, if you want to suppress information about something, is to ensure that its comments always devolve into unproductive discussions. Funny, I once read about this as a tactic for controlling information flow in online communities...
thomastjeffery 3y ago
I don't take any issue with people flagging a post, so long as an actual person makes the ultimate decision on whether to keep it up. This is in contrast to how I feel about a statistical model flagging people to be murdered. That's not even remotely OK, even if the decision to actually carry out the murder ultimately goes through a person. Using a statistical model to choose targets is incredibly naive, and practically guarantees that perverse incentives will drive decision-making.
dang 3y ago
This is a typical phenomenon when a topic is divisive, and the Israel/Gaza topic is one of the most divisive. Edit: We sometimes turn off flags when an article contains significant new information and also has at least some chance of providing a substantive basis for discussion. I haven't read the current article yet but it seems like a reasonable candidate for this, so I turned off the flags. For anyone who wants more information about how we approach doing that, in the context of the current topic, here are some past explanations: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39618973 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39618973 (March 2024) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39435324 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39435324 (Feb 2024) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39435024 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39435024 (Feb 2024) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39237176 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39237176 (Feb 2024) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38947003 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38947003 (Jan 2024) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38749162 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38749162 (Dec 2023)
- edanm 3y ago
  > This is a typical phenomenon when a topic is divisive, and the Israel/Gaza topic is one of the most divisive. Kind of related thought - is there a topic you think is more divisive? And also, is there some way that this is measured officially or unofficially?
  - dang 3y ago
    No and in fact my comment originally said "the current topic is perhaps the most divisive HN has ever seen". Not measured, though, if you mean some kind of quantitative approach.
    - edanm 3y ago
      I wonder how that could be measured. I also think it's the most divisive topic here (for the last few months at least), but since it's obviously very personal for me, it's hard to know if that's a bias in my view.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

I don't understand why it was flagged, obviously it is a sensitive topic but AI being used to kill people is very clearly a HN-worthy topic

calibas 3y ago
It was flagged because someone doesn't want people seeing this. It's also currently dropping rank on the front page, despite being heavily upvoted.
- luketaylor 3y ago
  Now removed from the front page even without being labeled as flagged.
  - YeGoblynQueenne 3y ago
    Discussions with lots of comments are routinely pushed down the stack. dang has commented on that a few times I think. Anyway it's not the subject, just the raw numbers of the activity.
nemo44x 3y ago
Yeah, you'd hope that a higher level conversation about the use of technology in war, pros/cons, etc could supersede personal political beliefs about this particular conflict. We don't need people's moral judgements on who is right or wrong in this particular case but it would be neat to hear people's thoughts on utilizing information technology as a weapon of war.
- ilikehurdles 3y ago
  One would hope, but I’ve read all 21 comments in this post and not a single one of them meets your criteria.

harimau777 3y ago

Is there any consequence for inappropriate flagging?

supposemaybe 3y ago
[flagged]
- 2OEH8eoCRo0 3y ago
  It got 98 points in 20 minutes but sure, IDF troll armies.
  - croes 3y ago
    How do 98 refute a IDF troll army? It got 98 points but also was flagged multiple times.
- kazmer_ak 3y ago
  [flagged]
ykonstant 3y ago
Not in this instance, I assume. People flagging too much can result in shadowbanning, but perhaps the mods think that flagging posts that might host heated political-religious discussion is ok (even if they don't have such discussion, and even if they are on-topic for HN). I also don't think there is a way to complain about abusing flags other than emailing the mods; I have no clue about the effectiveness of this complaint.
- oefrha 3y ago
  I have emailed many time over the years. Got a response from dang every single time. Several accounts lost vouching privileges thanks to my emails, among other things — they were vouching clearly guidelines-breaking crap, I drew dang’s attention, and they were penalized. So, if you have a concern, just email.

dguest 3y ago

Let's see how long it takes this time! I'd give it 50% odds of lasting 12 minutes. Edit: Flagged after less than 9 minutes, I overestimated!

theEntroX 3y ago
and then un-flagged right after?
- dguest 3y ago
  It seems so. What a ride!
- mtlmtlmtlmtl 3y ago
  I vouched for it.
  - dfxm12 3y ago
    Where's this option?
    - mtlmtlmtlmtl 3y ago
      Usually the same place the flag button is. It only appears when a post or commen is flagged/dead.
      - dfxm12 3y ago
        It wasn't there for me. I vaguely remember it being there before though.
        mtlmtlmtlmtl 3y ago
        I think sometimes you have to click on the date to go directly to the post/comment, in order to see it.
- 3y ago

hn_throwaway_99 3y ago

As someone who sees both sides of this, and as someone who didn't understand this for some time, it's important to understand that one reason a story is likely to get flagged is because users think it's highly unlikely to lead to productive discussion. It doesn't mean it's a bad story, or even unworthy of discussion, but many types of stories seem to, pretty predictably, lead to a cesspool of comments where it's clear most folks have no desire to listen to opposing points of view. FWIW, I found this to be a really interesting story that I didn't previously know about, so I hope it stays up, and this is a story I'd be willing to vouch for.

consumer451 3y ago
There is a system in place for flagging specific comments by users. Admins can, and do, prune entire branches of comments off of posts. These two methods would take a bit more work than just banishing the topic entirely, but with topics like the first time that "AI" kill lists are publicized, maybe exceptions should be made.
pphysch 3y ago
Successful flagging doesn't (just) disable comments, it disables discovery/access. For a high quality piece of tech-related investigative journalism like this, flagging is simply censorship.
dfxm12 3y ago
If one don't want to engage, the hide button isn't too far from the flag button. It's important that people have the option to speak freely and openly about this topic, since so many places shut down any conversation that shows sympathy for Palestinians and/or doesn't paint Israel as unequivocally morally good. This is one of the reasons Israel has been able to get away with this behavior for so long. Considering what regularly doesn't get flagged on this site related to AI, conflict, etc., this topic seems to fit in.
throwaway74432 3y ago
>it's highly unlikely to lead to productive discussion. I guess all you have to do, if you want to suppress information about something, is to ensure that its comments always devolve into unproductive discussions. Funny, I once read about this as a tactic for controlling information flow in online communities...

thomastjeffery 3y ago

I don't take any issue with people flagging a post, so long as an actual person makes the ultimate decision on whether to keep it up. This is in contrast to how I feel about a statistical model flagging people to be murdered. That's not even remotely OK, even if the decision to actually carry out the murder ultimately goes through a person. Using a statistical model to choose targets is incredibly naive, and practically guarantees that perverse incentives will drive decision-making.

dang 3y ago

This is a typical phenomenon when a topic is divisive, and the Israel/Gaza topic is one of the most divisive. Edit: We sometimes turn off flags when an article contains significant new information and also has at least some chance of providing a substantive basis for discussion. I haven't read the current article yet but it seems like a reasonable candidate for this, so I turned off the flags. For anyone who wants more information about how we approach doing that, in the context of the current topic, here are some past explanations: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39618973 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39618973 (March 2024) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39435324 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39435324 (Feb 2024) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39435024 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39435024 (Feb 2024) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39237176 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39237176 (Feb 2024) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38947003 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38947003 (Jan 2024) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38749162 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38749162 (Dec 2023)

edanm 3y ago
> This is a typical phenomenon when a topic is divisive, and the Israel/Gaza topic is one of the most divisive. Kind of related thought - is there a topic you think is more divisive? And also, is there some way that this is measured officially or unofficially?
- dang 3y ago
  No and in fact my comment originally said "the current topic is perhaps the most divisive HN has ever seen". Not measured, though, if you mean some kind of quantitative approach.
  - edanm 3y ago
    I wonder how that could be measured. I also think it's the most divisive topic here (for the last few months at least), but since it's obviously very personal for me, it's hard to know if that's a bias in my view.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]