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As bad as this story makes the Israelis sound, it still reads like ass-covering to make it sound like they were at least trying to kill militants. It's been cle

As bad as this story makes the Israelis sound, it still reads like ass-covering to make it sound like they were at least trying to kill militants. It's been clear from the start that they've been targeting journalists, medical staff and anyone involved in aid distribution, with the goal of rendering life in Gaza impossible.

deleted 3y ago
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goethes_kind 3y ago
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- majikaja 3y ago
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  - cmrdporcupine 3y ago
    It hasn't before. They've bombed whole UN compounds, killed US and Canadian citizens, etc. and suffered no consequences.
    - tdeck 3y ago
      Remember the first hospital Israel bombed and then claimed it wasn't them? Since that didn't result in any consequences, now Israel bombs hospitals nearly every day. Same story with the flour massacre.
      - cmrdporcupine 3y ago
        That one actually legitimately may not have been them. Which then creates a smokescreen of plausible deniability for atrocities which they are the clear authors of. The reason we all rushed to point fingers at them for that one is... they'd done it before.
        enterprise_cog 3y ago
        It was Israel. https://forensic-architecture.org/investigation/israeli-disinformation-al-ahli-hospital https://forensic-architecture.org/investigation/israeli-disi...
        yonixw 3y ago
        It was not. https://www.wsj.com/world/middle-east/israel-tries-to-back-up-claims-it-didnt-attack-gaza-hospital-a8cc3405 https://www.wsj.com/world/middle-east/israel-tries-to-back-u... Not to mention the BBC started with "500 dead" title that was literally Hamas propoganda.
        enterprise_cog 3y ago
        That article is from October and the link I provided refutes what was said in it.
        secstate 3y ago
        Geez. Simply the trajectory changing twice in flight rules out rockets and makes is pretty clear it was a directed Interceptor. But the fog of war is thick so we'll probably never really know. So sad.
rozap 3y ago
Yea this really seems like more of a weapon of propaganda directed at Israelis. If they didn't want people to know about it, we probably wouldn't know about it. The fact that we're talking about it is probably not an accident, and I guess the play here would be to convince Israelis that the army is technologically advanced and they know what they're doing, so don't question it. But AI or not they were going to commit genocide and violate every international humanitarian law on the book. But for the people that still believe the genocide is justified I think this probably improves the optics.
- flawn 3y ago
  I don't know if this was really planned. With my best will, I cannot imagine the Israeli military & Netanyahu's government releasing this to cover their ass. This could be potentially something which worsens their actions and not lessen them. Obviously, nobody in an international court will be able to say "... but the AI did it!" - This is just far too easy as a way out. There are rules to AI Usage and one of them is not a usage like that - as already said somewhere else: The AI is only as ethical/moral as the humans behind them.
  - rozap 3y ago
    I agree it doesn't justify it, but I just don't think the international court is a concern at this point. I think they're pretty far past that point. Maybe the international court will judge them in 20 years, but the damage will have been done and netanyahu's objectives will be achieved. The only major power that can stop it is the US and they refuse to do so.
deleted 3y ago
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yonisto 3y ago
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mupuff1234 3y ago
> It's been clear from the start that they've been targeting journalists, medical staff and anyone involved in aid distribution I really doubt that's the case, seems more like a "fire first if any suspicion at all and ask questions later" policy. If there was an intentional policy to kills journalists, aid workers and medical staff you'd see a lot more dead. And you have to be extremely naive or one sided to not realize that Hamas does use those type of roles as cover for their operations. Not trying to justify Israel's actions because they are fucked up, but based on all the evidence we have you are clearly wrong.
- Workaccount2 3y ago
  >And you have to be extremely naive or one sided to not realize that Hamas does use those type of roles as cover for their operations. Why would Hamas use anything other than clearly uniformed soldiers, marked military vehicles, and civilian distanced military installations?
- pvaldes 3y ago
  > I really doubt that's the case, seems more like a "fire first if any suspicion at all and ask questions later" policy. I will try to solve your doubt. Gaza is a closed area. You can't just cross freely the frontier unless Israel allows it. Before that, humanitarian organisations are required to inform directly to Israeli army about everything that they want to do, where they want to go, how many, an when. They are clearly identified by a logo at all times. Israel had every single piece of info necessary to avoid bombing aid workers and had it for weeks Despite that, Israel can't avoid to keep killing this workers; and they were doing the same repeatedly, systematically, for the last six months, in multiple attacks that last tens of minutes (maybe even hours?), while singing "oops!, I did it again". The theory of the honest mistake is getting really difficult to swallow.
  - mupuff1234 3y ago
    I think you're proving the opposite - like you said they have all the information so if they really wanted to kill all aid workers they could easily do that, so the fact that they haven't makes it pretty clear that isn't their goal. You really think Israel coordinated with WCK for weeks now only to suddenly decide to kill a few aid workers intentionally? It makes zero sense. And if you wanna go all conspiracy theory, why not just make it to look like Hamas killed the aid workers? It would be extremely easy for Israel to do so.
worddepress 3y ago
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deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

goethes_kind 3y ago

[flagged]

majikaja 3y ago
[flagged]
- cmrdporcupine 3y ago
  It hasn't before. They've bombed whole UN compounds, killed US and Canadian citizens, etc. and suffered no consequences.
  - tdeck 3y ago
    Remember the first hospital Israel bombed and then claimed it wasn't them? Since that didn't result in any consequences, now Israel bombs hospitals nearly every day. Same story with the flour massacre.
    - cmrdporcupine 3y ago
      That one actually legitimately may not have been them. Which then creates a smokescreen of plausible deniability for atrocities which they are the clear authors of. The reason we all rushed to point fingers at them for that one is... they'd done it before.
      - enterprise_cog 3y ago
        It was Israel. https://forensic-architecture.org/investigation/israeli-disinformation-al-ahli-hospital https://forensic-architecture.org/investigation/israeli-disi...
        yonixw 3y ago
        It was not. https://www.wsj.com/world/middle-east/israel-tries-to-back-up-claims-it-didnt-attack-gaza-hospital-a8cc3405 https://www.wsj.com/world/middle-east/israel-tries-to-back-u... Not to mention the BBC started with "500 dead" title that was literally Hamas propoganda.
        enterprise_cog 3y ago
        That article is from October and the link I provided refutes what was said in it.
        secstate 3y ago
        Geez. Simply the trajectory changing twice in flight rules out rockets and makes is pretty clear it was a directed Interceptor. But the fog of war is thick so we'll probably never really know. So sad.

rozap 3y ago

Yea this really seems like more of a weapon of propaganda directed at Israelis. If they didn't want people to know about it, we probably wouldn't know about it. The fact that we're talking about it is probably not an accident, and I guess the play here would be to convince Israelis that the army is technologically advanced and they know what they're doing, so don't question it. But AI or not they were going to commit genocide and violate every international humanitarian law on the book. But for the people that still believe the genocide is justified I think this probably improves the optics.

flawn 3y ago
I don't know if this was really planned. With my best will, I cannot imagine the Israeli military & Netanyahu's government releasing this to cover their ass. This could be potentially something which worsens their actions and not lessen them. Obviously, nobody in an international court will be able to say "... but the AI did it!" - This is just far too easy as a way out. There are rules to AI Usage and one of them is not a usage like that - as already said somewhere else: The AI is only as ethical/moral as the humans behind them.
- rozap 3y ago
  I agree it doesn't justify it, but I just don't think the international court is a concern at this point. I think they're pretty far past that point. Maybe the international court will judge them in 20 years, but the damage will have been done and netanyahu's objectives will be achieved. The only major power that can stop it is the US and they refuse to do so.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

yonisto 3y ago

[flagged]

mupuff1234 3y ago

> It's been clear from the start that they've been targeting journalists, medical staff and anyone involved in aid distribution I really doubt that's the case, seems more like a "fire first if any suspicion at all and ask questions later" policy. If there was an intentional policy to kills journalists, aid workers and medical staff you'd see a lot more dead. And you have to be extremely naive or one sided to not realize that Hamas does use those type of roles as cover for their operations. Not trying to justify Israel's actions because they are fucked up, but based on all the evidence we have you are clearly wrong.

Workaccount2 3y ago
>And you have to be extremely naive or one sided to not realize that Hamas does use those type of roles as cover for their operations. Why would Hamas use anything other than clearly uniformed soldiers, marked military vehicles, and civilian distanced military installations?
pvaldes 3y ago
> I really doubt that's the case, seems more like a "fire first if any suspicion at all and ask questions later" policy. I will try to solve your doubt. Gaza is a closed area. You can't just cross freely the frontier unless Israel allows it. Before that, humanitarian organisations are required to inform directly to Israeli army about everything that they want to do, where they want to go, how many, an when. They are clearly identified by a logo at all times. Israel had every single piece of info necessary to avoid bombing aid workers and had it for weeks Despite that, Israel can't avoid to keep killing this workers; and they were doing the same repeatedly, systematically, for the last six months, in multiple attacks that last tens of minutes (maybe even hours?), while singing "oops!, I did it again". The theory of the honest mistake is getting really difficult to swallow.
- mupuff1234 3y ago
  I think you're proving the opposite - like you said they have all the information so if they really wanted to kill all aid workers they could easily do that, so the fact that they haven't makes it pretty clear that isn't their goal. You really think Israel coordinated with WCK for weeks now only to suddenly decide to kill a few aid workers intentionally? It makes zero sense. And if you wanna go all conspiracy theory, why not just make it to look like Hamas killed the aid workers? It would be extremely easy for Israel to do so.

worddepress 3y ago

[flagged]