5 ms·

It's true that delivery services add a middle-man, but you don't seem to be considering that they add a lot of value in some important ways: 1. The single webs

It's true that delivery services add a middle-man, but you don't seem to be considering that they add a lot of value in some important ways: 1. The single website/app is not just useful for discovery, but also to provide a consistent ordering experience. An individual restaurant might take orders over the phone, via their website, or via their own app. Those options will vary from one restaurant to the next. Not great for customers. 2. In the old model, restaurants would have to decide how many drivers to have on hand at any given time. During quiet periods they would have to decide between not offering delivery at all, or having a driver sitting around doing nothing. A delivery service that aggregates demand & supply is very useful for restaurants & drivers. Pooling of resources & layering on surge pricing creates a lot of elasticity. I would argue that what they should have done is tried to at this value at minimal cost to customers, drivers & restaurants. If they were leaner businesses the overall proposition could be a lot better.

capybara_2020 3y ago
You bring up an interesting point. Just thinking out loud for a moment here. Is the current VC business model potentially the problem area and not the actual businesses? The need for rapid growth/software company like profit margins when these companies need more time and potentially are like non-software companies in terms of profits?
- disgruntledphd2 3y ago
  Yeah, demanding software level margins for physical world businesses basically hasn't worked anywhere in the past ten years. Like the only success I can see is AirBnB and that's because houses are expensive and in short supply.
  - skywhopper 3y ago
    I mean, AirBnB has contributed directly to the housing shortage in many areas, so I'm not sure it "worked".
    - disgruntledphd2 3y ago
      From a financial perspective I think it's worked. From a societal perspective I'd agree with you.
Jochim 3y ago
I'm curious as to how food delivery worked in your country before Uber et al. In the UK, outside of corporate chains, it was largely a cash in hand operation for both the restaurants and drivers. Drivers would typically be paid a small sum for showing up on the night and then keep the delivery charge and any tips. The cost to the restaurant was pretty much negligible. The middle-men, in addition to their own cut, have likely lead to a larger tax burden on many of the drivers and restaurants.
- jfoster 3y ago
  > Drivers would typically be paid a small sum for showing up on the night and then keep the delivery charge and any tips. Under that model, wouldn't drivers only want to work for the busiest restaurants? With delivery apps, a restaurant can have just a few orders per night and still be open for delivery. I would bet that there's an order of magnitude more deliveries happening (and drivers working) these days vs pre-Uber.
  - Jochim 3y ago
    > Under that model, wouldn't drivers only want to work for the busiest restaurants? It doesn't take many orders to keep an individual driver busy. Typically the restaurants would manage how many, and which, drivers worked each night. If the night was unexpectedly quiet then a driver might finish early. > With delivery apps, a restaurant can have just a few orders per night and still be open for delivery. Yeah, the main benefit of delivery apps is enabling restaurants who primarily serve sit-in diners to deliver also. The overall benefit to delivery focused restaurants is much more tenuous. > I would bet that there's an order of magnitude more deliveries happening (and drivers working) these days vs pre-Uber. Perhaps, but if a driver was already busy all night under the previous model, then they're potentially harmed by the current model.
  - ToucanLoucan 3y ago
    Honestly I think there's a great role something like Uber could fill, simply as a nationalized, not-for-profit tax funded arrangement that businesses could opt into, maybe even a branch of the post office. Ensure delivery people get good benefits and pay for doing a needed job, and the service brings those people, restaurants and stores, and consumers together. We could make things more convenient for people, provide businesses with more opportunities to sell their products, while providing a lot of jobs to people who need them, and also cutting down on the number of vehicles going around at any given moment. The main drawbacks to these services are the outrageous fees they charge to make money, and that there's more than one so drivers and businesses have to manage an array of phones or tablets. This would address both of those things.
red-iron-pine 3y ago
> 1. The single website/app is not just useful for discovery, but also to provide a consistent ordering experience. An individual restaurant might take orders over the phone, via their website, or via their own app. Those options will vary from one restaurant to the next. Not great for customers. Aye. Arguably this is why old-school streaming Netflix won so well -- all of your options in one place. Likewise, there is one app for all food choices nearby. Also agree on the second point, though presumably larger chains in built up areas could play the same game; e.g. Domino's in a borough of NYC has an "all-drivers-in-Queens" pool.
ryukoposting 3y ago
> also to provide a consistent ordering experience Vendored web POS is widely available, and was emerging before UberEats and DD ever did. See: Toast > A delivery service that aggregates demand & supply is very useful for restaurants & drivers. This is only true in theory. You aren't giving enough credit to the logistical skills of small business owners, they are really good at allocating and dispatching drivers. If you're small enough to have no deliveries for several hours, then don't schedule any drivers during that time. If a delivery comes in, tell your cashier the address and have them run the delivery. Besides being quite efficient, there's an added bonus that you're cross-training your staff. That's how we always did it, at least. It's anecdotal evidence, sure, but every delivery driver I have asked (half a dozen from several different cities and states) has said that their job is harder and pays worse today than 10 years ago. "Well, just be more lean!" What a concept, I'm sure they haven't thought of that. It's much easier said than done. Logistics software is extremely complicated at scale- there's a reason governments subsidize delivery logistics through services like USPS, Royal Mail, etc. However, at the one-business microcosm, it's a simple enough problem that a seasoned owner/manager can organize an optimal dispatch in their head, on the fly.

capybara_2020 3y ago

You bring up an interesting point. Just thinking out loud for a moment here. Is the current VC business model potentially the problem area and not the actual businesses? The need for rapid growth/software company like profit margins when these companies need more time and potentially are like non-software companies in terms of profits?

disgruntledphd2 3y ago
Yeah, demanding software level margins for physical world businesses basically hasn't worked anywhere in the past ten years. Like the only success I can see is AirBnB and that's because houses are expensive and in short supply.
- skywhopper 3y ago
  I mean, AirBnB has contributed directly to the housing shortage in many areas, so I'm not sure it "worked".
  - disgruntledphd2 3y ago
    From a financial perspective I think it's worked. From a societal perspective I'd agree with you.

Jochim 3y ago

I'm curious as to how food delivery worked in your country before Uber et al. In the UK, outside of corporate chains, it was largely a cash in hand operation for both the restaurants and drivers. Drivers would typically be paid a small sum for showing up on the night and then keep the delivery charge and any tips. The cost to the restaurant was pretty much negligible. The middle-men, in addition to their own cut, have likely lead to a larger tax burden on many of the drivers and restaurants.

jfoster 3y ago
> Drivers would typically be paid a small sum for showing up on the night and then keep the delivery charge and any tips. Under that model, wouldn't drivers only want to work for the busiest restaurants? With delivery apps, a restaurant can have just a few orders per night and still be open for delivery. I would bet that there's an order of magnitude more deliveries happening (and drivers working) these days vs pre-Uber.
- Jochim 3y ago
  > Under that model, wouldn't drivers only want to work for the busiest restaurants? It doesn't take many orders to keep an individual driver busy. Typically the restaurants would manage how many, and which, drivers worked each night. If the night was unexpectedly quiet then a driver might finish early. > With delivery apps, a restaurant can have just a few orders per night and still be open for delivery. Yeah, the main benefit of delivery apps is enabling restaurants who primarily serve sit-in diners to deliver also. The overall benefit to delivery focused restaurants is much more tenuous. > I would bet that there's an order of magnitude more deliveries happening (and drivers working) these days vs pre-Uber. Perhaps, but if a driver was already busy all night under the previous model, then they're potentially harmed by the current model.
- ToucanLoucan 3y ago
  Honestly I think there's a great role something like Uber could fill, simply as a nationalized, not-for-profit tax funded arrangement that businesses could opt into, maybe even a branch of the post office. Ensure delivery people get good benefits and pay for doing a needed job, and the service brings those people, restaurants and stores, and consumers together. We could make things more convenient for people, provide businesses with more opportunities to sell their products, while providing a lot of jobs to people who need them, and also cutting down on the number of vehicles going around at any given moment. The main drawbacks to these services are the outrageous fees they charge to make money, and that there's more than one so drivers and businesses have to manage an array of phones or tablets. This would address both of those things.

red-iron-pine 3y ago

> 1. The single website/app is not just useful for discovery, but also to provide a consistent ordering experience. An individual restaurant might take orders over the phone, via their website, or via their own app. Those options will vary from one restaurant to the next. Not great for customers. Aye. Arguably this is why old-school streaming Netflix won so well -- all of your options in one place. Likewise, there is one app for all food choices nearby. Also agree on the second point, though presumably larger chains in built up areas could play the same game; e.g. Domino's in a borough of NYC has an "all-drivers-in-Queens" pool.

ryukoposting 3y ago

> also to provide a consistent ordering experience Vendored web POS is widely available, and was emerging before UberEats and DD ever did. See: Toast > A delivery service that aggregates demand & supply is very useful for restaurants & drivers. This is only true in theory. You aren't giving enough credit to the logistical skills of small business owners, they are really good at allocating and dispatching drivers. If you're small enough to have no deliveries for several hours, then don't schedule any drivers during that time. If a delivery comes in, tell your cashier the address and have them run the delivery. Besides being quite efficient, there's an added bonus that you're cross-training your staff. That's how we always did it, at least. It's anecdotal evidence, sure, but every delivery driver I have asked (half a dozen from several different cities and states) has said that their job is harder and pays worse today than 10 years ago. "Well, just be more lean!" What a concept, I'm sure they haven't thought of that. It's much easier said than done. Logistics software is extremely complicated at scale- there's a reason governments subsidize delivery logistics through services like USPS, Royal Mail, etc. However, at the one-business microcosm, it's a simple enough problem that a seasoned owner/manager can organize an optimal dispatch in their head, on the fly.