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I'm glad it's gone for good, if the process really works like how it's described in the article. Thousands of poor souls doing terrible pointless menial work ju

by rwbt 3y ago

I'm glad it's gone for good, if the process really works like how it's described in the article. Thousands of poor souls doing terrible pointless menial work just so that a few entitled customers can avoid the clunky self checkout (eww- the horror!). The entitlement of the west has no bounds really.

b112 3y ago
I'm sure all those fired, new job seekers jn India agree fully with you.
- rwbt 3y ago
  If the system did end up working as designed, wouldn't they get the shaft anyways?
  - b112 3y ago
    You were upset that due to the "entitled" west, Indians had jobs. You were glad the jobs were gone. Now you're trying to redirect, and say "Oh well, those jobs would have lasted only a few years more anyhow!". My respnse to that is the same: I'm sure all those fired, new job seekers jn India agree fully with you. Consider te perspective of those you aim to "protect".
wyager 3y ago
> Thousands of poor souls doing terrible pointless menial work just so that a few entitled customers can avoid the clunky self checkout Wanting to make your life more convenient and pleasant isn't "entitled". 99% of jobs are things people would rather not be doing (otherwise you wouldn't be getting paid for it). The point is that we can allocate this work in a way that minimizes the amount of time everyone has to spend doing undesirable work. Are you mad that I sometimes pay "poor souls" to do the "menial work" of cooking me food so I can avoid doing it myself? > The entitlement of the west has no bounds really. A very bizarre response to "darn, this was so convenient" - I wonder if this is a troll.
- rwbt 3y ago
  If you don't like going to the grocery store pay someone to go get them for you. Thousands of people remotely "following" you around and scanning things for you, just so that you can avoid using self checkout sounds ridiculous and excessive.
  - saynay 3y ago
    Is it more ridiculous than having someone standing at a cash register in the store doing the same task, while also having to bag for you and pretend to smile?
  - soerxpso 3y ago
    I don't see where you're getting the impression that 1,000 workers are monitoring every single individual that walks into the store. The figure used was the total amount for the whole program (many locations), only one person was reviewing each case, and they were only even reviewing 70% of cases. Your argument is no different than saying that every time you go to McDonald's, you're entitled for expecting the hundreds of thousands of McDonald's employees globally to band together to make you your burger.
  - allan_s 3y ago
    So does having somebody sitting next to the checkout machine watching me (directly or through security camera) while I finish my groceries ? I fail to see the major difference with somebody working physically in the shop that makes it ridiculous and excessive. One may even argue that remotely it could opens the job to more people (one could do that from home in their wheelchair while their baby is taking a nap )
    - rwbt 3y ago
      There is a difference. In a typical grocery store, people only have to tally what you bought only once at the end during checkout. Where as in this "walk out" system someone has to follow you around "virtually" and keep track of everything you do in the store.
Retric 3y ago
It wasn’t pointless, they were training an AI that never fully worked. It’s ultimately the same kind of thing as people monitoring self driving cars, a boring task that may be pointless or possibly remove a lot of drudgery longer term. According to The Information, 700 out of 1,000 Just Walk Out sales required human reviewers as of 2022. This widely missed Amazon’s internal goals of reaching less than 50 reviews per 1,000 sales. Amazon called this characterization inaccurate, and disputes how many purchases require reviews.
- Animats 3y ago
  That sort of thing seems to improve over time. The USPS has had automatic sorting machines for a long time. At first they could only read pre-barcoded mail. Humans had to key in zip codes. Then character recognition got good enough that printed and typed addresses could be read automatically. Some items were still rejected, and they went through manual stations that added a bar-code sticker. Then manual reading was made remote. There were about 20 USPS remote envelope reading centers at peak. As the vision systems got good enough to read handwriting, then bad handwriting, those were cut back. Now there's only one remote envelope reading center in the US, and what gets there is really bad.
  - LordDragonfang 3y ago
    Tom Scott did a great video showing the last one in operation. They use totally unique keyboards with what is essentially a stenography system: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XxCha4Kez9c https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XxCha4Kez9c
DangitBobby 3y ago
Maybe Westerners are entitled, but this one isn't really our fault because we were led to believe it was magical automation instead of menial labor.
kevin_thibedeau 3y ago
The point of the store was to provide the appearance of conventional retail while being exclusive to "members". This would theoretically cut down on shoplifting and boost profits at the expense of shutting out marginalized people.
ushtaritk421 3y ago
Presumably these people applied for the jobs in question. I think it isn't for you to decide that their chosen job is pointless.
imperfect_light 3y ago
My first thought is that this was an attempt at satire, but now I realize it's a privileged Western person who has never traveled to a poor country and thinks that if these workers weren't labeling data they'd be self-actualized DJs or crypto investors.
- rwbt 3y ago
  I think your first instinct is the correct one. But I don't buy the argument that these jobs are somehow empowering them. My criticism is towards the entitlement of shoppers who think self checkout is too clunky and having to interact with a cashier is too annoying but expect an army of people to work behind the scenes (be it anywhere in the world) to make it easy for them.

by rwbt 3y ago

b112 3y ago

I'm sure all those fired, new job seekers jn India agree fully with you.

rwbt 3y ago
If the system did end up working as designed, wouldn't they get the shaft anyways?
- b112 3y ago
  You were upset that due to the "entitled" west, Indians had jobs. You were glad the jobs were gone. Now you're trying to redirect, and say "Oh well, those jobs would have lasted only a few years more anyhow!". My respnse to that is the same: I'm sure all those fired, new job seekers jn India agree fully with you. Consider te perspective of those you aim to "protect".

wyager 3y ago

> Thousands of poor souls doing terrible pointless menial work just so that a few entitled customers can avoid the clunky self checkout Wanting to make your life more convenient and pleasant isn't "entitled". 99% of jobs are things people would rather not be doing (otherwise you wouldn't be getting paid for it). The point is that we can allocate this work in a way that minimizes the amount of time everyone has to spend doing undesirable work. Are you mad that I sometimes pay "poor souls" to do the "menial work" of cooking me food so I can avoid doing it myself? > The entitlement of the west has no bounds really. A very bizarre response to "darn, this was so convenient" - I wonder if this is a troll.

rwbt 3y ago
If you don't like going to the grocery store pay someone to go get them for you. Thousands of people remotely "following" you around and scanning things for you, just so that you can avoid using self checkout sounds ridiculous and excessive.
- saynay 3y ago
  Is it more ridiculous than having someone standing at a cash register in the store doing the same task, while also having to bag for you and pretend to smile?
- soerxpso 3y ago
  I don't see where you're getting the impression that 1,000 workers are monitoring every single individual that walks into the store. The figure used was the total amount for the whole program (many locations), only one person was reviewing each case, and they were only even reviewing 70% of cases. Your argument is no different than saying that every time you go to McDonald's, you're entitled for expecting the hundreds of thousands of McDonald's employees globally to band together to make you your burger.
- allan_s 3y ago
  So does having somebody sitting next to the checkout machine watching me (directly or through security camera) while I finish my groceries ? I fail to see the major difference with somebody working physically in the shop that makes it ridiculous and excessive. One may even argue that remotely it could opens the job to more people (one could do that from home in their wheelchair while their baby is taking a nap )
  - rwbt 3y ago
    There is a difference. In a typical grocery store, people only have to tally what you bought only once at the end during checkout. Where as in this "walk out" system someone has to follow you around "virtually" and keep track of everything you do in the store.

Retric 3y ago

It wasn’t pointless, they were training an AI that never fully worked. It’s ultimately the same kind of thing as people monitoring self driving cars, a boring task that may be pointless or possibly remove a lot of drudgery longer term. According to The Information, 700 out of 1,000 Just Walk Out sales required human reviewers as of 2022. This widely missed Amazon’s internal goals of reaching less than 50 reviews per 1,000 sales. Amazon called this characterization inaccurate, and disputes how many purchases require reviews.

Animats 3y ago
That sort of thing seems to improve over time. The USPS has had automatic sorting machines for a long time. At first they could only read pre-barcoded mail. Humans had to key in zip codes. Then character recognition got good enough that printed and typed addresses could be read automatically. Some items were still rejected, and they went through manual stations that added a bar-code sticker. Then manual reading was made remote. There were about 20 USPS remote envelope reading centers at peak. As the vision systems got good enough to read handwriting, then bad handwriting, those were cut back. Now there's only one remote envelope reading center in the US, and what gets there is really bad.
- LordDragonfang 3y ago
  Tom Scott did a great video showing the last one in operation. They use totally unique keyboards with what is essentially a stenography system: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XxCha4Kez9c https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XxCha4Kez9c

DangitBobby 3y ago

Maybe Westerners are entitled, but this one isn't really our fault because we were led to believe it was magical automation instead of menial labor.

kevin_thibedeau 3y ago

The point of the store was to provide the appearance of conventional retail while being exclusive to "members". This would theoretically cut down on shoplifting and boost profits at the expense of shutting out marginalized people.

ushtaritk421 3y ago

Presumably these people applied for the jobs in question. I think it isn't for you to decide that their chosen job is pointless.

imperfect_light 3y ago

My first thought is that this was an attempt at satire, but now I realize it's a privileged Western person who has never traveled to a poor country and thinks that if these workers weren't labeling data they'd be self-actualized DJs or crypto investors.

rwbt 3y ago
I think your first instinct is the correct one. But I don't buy the argument that these jobs are somehow empowering them. My criticism is towards the entitlement of shoppers who think self checkout is too clunky and having to interact with a cashier is too annoying but expect an army of people to work behind the scenes (be it anywhere in the world) to make it easy for them.