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As an Turkish citizen living in Turkey. this move is bold but too early move. Also it's nothing about killing books. It's just a AKP(the ruling party) pr move w

by fsniper 14y ago

As an Turkish citizen living in Turkey. this move is bold but too early move. Also it's nothing about killing books. It's just a AKP(the ruling party) pr move without any bases. We even lack the tech to run governmental sites in a stable and secure way. Forget about making this kind of technological movement worthy for the kids. These will be highly restricted tablets - even not working outside of classrooms -, and with highly censored Internet. We have a tendency to restrict any sites against Islamic creationism so most of any pro-evolution or even scientific evolution ones will be restricted. I believe they will put the kids on a "white-listed" restriction zone. Other than these points, we lack a decent educational system. Every government has been trying to circumvent the system according to their views and change curriculum, exam and admission ways annually. And there are too many children lacking the basic thinking and reading abilities. So these tablets won't make any good to them. -- loosely related political point of view start -- Even governments have been circumventing how long and "how" the education system is. This year AKP legislated an education system of 4+4+4 which means, well I have no fucking idea! But as much as I've heard it would make possible 4 year old kids to be admitted for elementary school which will have "optional" Quran and "Prophet Muhammad" lessons and women to be continue education without attending the last 4 years. -- loosely related political point of view end -- In the light of these information, I again don't believe this bold move means anything for the children. It's just a pr and social engineering move.

jballanc 14y ago
As an American citizen living in Turkey, I agree that this effort is a bit cart-before-the-horse. That said, I think that Turkey is in an interesting place right now. Maybe the way they are introducing technology into the classroom is wrong, but at least they are interested in using technology in the classroom. Meanwhile, the US is arguing over the best way to use statistics to decide which teachers to fire. It seems that this same story is playing itself out in a number of areas. Turkey "gets it" in terms of science and technology investments, it just doesn't seem to know the best way to go about making those investments. Personally, I prefer this situation to the alternative: knowing exactly how and what to do, but not even bothering to keep a manned spaceflight capability or high-energy particle physics research facility funded. As for what Turkey can do to get on the right track, I think the first thing that needs to happen is the expansion of homegrown technologies. It seems every user group or startup weekend type event I've seen advertised is almost exclusively sponsored and/or run by Microsoft. Turkey would do well to look at a country like Brazil that, while it suffered being behind the times for a while, is now a strong player in the technology sector because it focused on homegrown tech.
- fsniper 14y ago
  The ones that are advertised are from Microsoft. Because they have the money. I'm a - past time active - Turkey LUG/LUF (Linux User Foundation) member and we still continuously do events but lack the funding for advertisement. On the topic, In my point of view, these moves are just wasting government funding, even a corruption possibility. If you know about Deniz Feneri Lawsuit you can understand my doubts. Without deep understanding of the upcoming results and project targets, these projects are only time and resource wasting. Also giving false hopes to parents about our education systems quality.
  - jballanc 14y ago
    I think the outcome of this experiment very much depends on the attitude that parents and students take into it. If they passively accept the technology, don't ask questions, and don't push for more access, more technology, then the project will be a waste regardless of any corruption or inefficiencies. If, on the other hand, the students and parents expect to take this technology and do something with it, to change somehow the state of education, then it won't matter how poorly executed this first project is. Students will demand more and better access as time goes on. I am an optimist. Recent reports on the success (or lack thereof) of the One Laptop Per Child program make me slightly more pessimistic, though...
    - fsniper 14y ago
      I believe, only a few of the kids will push whatever they have for better use. This may be my pessimism, but lack of DIY culture and abusing of technology tendency of Turkey population makes me think like this.
      - jballanc 14y ago
        I can't say you're wrong. I only wonder what it would take to change that...
        fsniper 14y ago
afsina 14y ago
Generally I agree that throwing hardware to schools does not solve anything. "We have a tendency to restrict any sites against Islamic creationism so most of any pro-evolution or even scientific evolution ones will be restricted" You have to back this claim. There were incidents where some blogs were blocked but that was because of a court order which was caused by an individual, not government. "This year AKP legislated an education system of 4+4+4 which means, well I have no fucking idea! But as much as I've heard it would make possible 4 year old kids to be admitted for elementary school which will have "optional" Quran and "Prophet Muhammad" lessons and women to be continue education without attending the last 4 years." Idea is to revert the previous "27th of february coup"'s education changes which practically destroyed technical high schools and unnecessarily combined elementary and secondary schools. I believe the new system is better, no matter what the government's agenda is. However it was executed too quickly. Also as a side note, if there is a demand for religious education (And there is), parents should be allowed to give it.
- fsniper 14y ago
  I won't go into a quarrel about these. And I won't back any of my claims. At least not on HN
  - dnda 14y ago
    Yet you spilled them here on HN :)
    - fsniper 14y ago
      Yes sorry for it. - late edit: But I had to put my pov to describe why I believe this is a social engineering move.
- batuhanicoz 14y ago
  > You have to back this claim. There were incidents where some blogs were blocked but that was because of a court order which was caused by an individual, not government. Some parts of the claims can be backed. Just looking at the Internet connection of places which managed by the Ministry of Education can prove that the access WILL be limited. For example, social networking sites (not just big players like Facebook and Twitter, small ones like FriendFeed as well), most of the blogs, YouTube (and many of its alternatives) CAN NOT be accessed in schools or any of the ministry buildings. I know blocking social networks and sites like YouTube can be understood since they are distractions in school but the blogs which are blocked shows what they are trying to do. All blogs which has some kind of non-muslim information is blocked. Even my blog, a 17 year teenagers blog, is blocked in schools in Turkey. The reason for it, I believe, is the fact that I'm not Muslim and said so in an old video of mine, which is not removed.

by fsniper 14y ago

jballanc 14y ago

As an American citizen living in Turkey, I agree that this effort is a bit cart-before-the-horse. That said, I think that Turkey is in an interesting place right now. Maybe the way they are introducing technology into the classroom is wrong, but at least they are interested in using technology in the classroom. Meanwhile, the US is arguing over the best way to use statistics to decide which teachers to fire. It seems that this same story is playing itself out in a number of areas. Turkey "gets it" in terms of science and technology investments, it just doesn't seem to know the best way to go about making those investments. Personally, I prefer this situation to the alternative: knowing exactly how and what to do, but not even bothering to keep a manned spaceflight capability or high-energy particle physics research facility funded. As for what Turkey can do to get on the right track, I think the first thing that needs to happen is the expansion of homegrown technologies. It seems every user group or startup weekend type event I've seen advertised is almost exclusively sponsored and/or run by Microsoft. Turkey would do well to look at a country like Brazil that, while it suffered being behind the times for a while, is now a strong player in the technology sector because it focused on homegrown tech.

fsniper 14y ago
The ones that are advertised are from Microsoft. Because they have the money. I'm a - past time active - Turkey LUG/LUF (Linux User Foundation) member and we still continuously do events but lack the funding for advertisement. On the topic, In my point of view, these moves are just wasting government funding, even a corruption possibility. If you know about Deniz Feneri Lawsuit you can understand my doubts. Without deep understanding of the upcoming results and project targets, these projects are only time and resource wasting. Also giving false hopes to parents about our education systems quality.
- jballanc 14y ago
  I think the outcome of this experiment very much depends on the attitude that parents and students take into it. If they passively accept the technology, don't ask questions, and don't push for more access, more technology, then the project will be a waste regardless of any corruption or inefficiencies. If, on the other hand, the students and parents expect to take this technology and do something with it, to change somehow the state of education, then it won't matter how poorly executed this first project is. Students will demand more and better access as time goes on. I am an optimist. Recent reports on the success (or lack thereof) of the One Laptop Per Child program make me slightly more pessimistic, though...
  - fsniper 14y ago
    I believe, only a few of the kids will push whatever they have for better use. This may be my pessimism, but lack of DIY culture and abusing of technology tendency of Turkey population makes me think like this.
    - jballanc 14y ago
      I can't say you're wrong. I only wonder what it would take to change that...
      - fsniper 14y ago

afsina 14y ago

Generally I agree that throwing hardware to schools does not solve anything. "We have a tendency to restrict any sites against Islamic creationism so most of any pro-evolution or even scientific evolution ones will be restricted" You have to back this claim. There were incidents where some blogs were blocked but that was because of a court order which was caused by an individual, not government. "This year AKP legislated an education system of 4+4+4 which means, well I have no fucking idea! But as much as I've heard it would make possible 4 year old kids to be admitted for elementary school which will have "optional" Quran and "Prophet Muhammad" lessons and women to be continue education without attending the last 4 years." Idea is to revert the previous "27th of february coup"'s education changes which practically destroyed technical high schools and unnecessarily combined elementary and secondary schools. I believe the new system is better, no matter what the government's agenda is. However it was executed too quickly. Also as a side note, if there is a demand for religious education (And there is), parents should be allowed to give it.

fsniper 14y ago
I won't go into a quarrel about these. And I won't back any of my claims. At least not on HN
- dnda 14y ago
  Yet you spilled them here on HN :)
  - fsniper 14y ago
    Yes sorry for it. - late edit: But I had to put my pov to describe why I believe this is a social engineering move.
batuhanicoz 14y ago
> You have to back this claim. There were incidents where some blogs were blocked but that was because of a court order which was caused by an individual, not government. Some parts of the claims can be backed. Just looking at the Internet connection of places which managed by the Ministry of Education can prove that the access WILL be limited. For example, social networking sites (not just big players like Facebook and Twitter, small ones like FriendFeed as well), most of the blogs, YouTube (and many of its alternatives) CAN NOT be accessed in schools or any of the ministry buildings. I know blocking social networks and sites like YouTube can be understood since they are distractions in school but the blogs which are blocked shows what they are trying to do. All blogs which has some kind of non-muslim information is blocked. Even my blog, a 17 year teenagers blog, is blocked in schools in Turkey. The reason for it, I believe, is the fact that I'm not Muslim and said so in an old video of mine, which is not removed.