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If you want me as a technical cofounder, you are going to tick most of these boxes: 1. You have at least 8-10 years of experience in that domain with some of i

If you want me as a technical cofounder, you are going to tick most of these boxes: 1. You have at least 8-10 years of experience in that domain with some of it in a leadership position (ie product manager) 2. You already have a huge following or audience. Especially important if this is a SaaS product or b2c. Not as important if this is hard tech (ie biotech). But if you’re doing a HR startup, show me your 10,000 engaged HR followers on LinkedIn. If you’re doing a martech startup, show me your Substack with 10k marketing subscribers. 3. You already have talked to at least 25 people about this, and gotten feedback about their pain points, initial reaction to your solution, etc. These conversations are documented and easily shared with me 4. You preferably have at least 1 successful exit/company under your belt, or a couple of failed ones is OK too (but I would need references to make sure they failed for legitimate reasons) the worse is 0 years of experience starting a company. 5. You are a cold email/call/outreach junkie. Because you will OWN sales in the early days. I want to see your 100 send emails or 100 daily calls or 100 sent DMs everyday asking potential customers for feedback or validation conversations or to sign up for your beta

aster0id 3y ago
Agree, almost the same requirements for me. I would be okay with just 1, 3 and 5 though.
- reneherse 3y ago
  That's odd and I agree entirely.
- hobofan 3y ago
  > the worse is 0 years of experience starting a company I think that's a crucial point of 4. I'm not sure if actual founding experience is necessary (as long as the company structure/cap table looks good if going the VC route). However a managing director position or something similar would definitely be something I'd look for nowadays as a lot of people seem to underestimate what that role entails and/or don't cope well with having the final responsibility in a organization structure.
  - rrr_oh_man 3y ago
    ex enterprise MD‘s have been among the worst fucking startup founders I’ve ever encountered. Close second to startup idea bros.
diffstrokes 3y ago
Agree, though I prefer B2B SaaS and someone who has a very solid B2B sales background and, at least, a good idea. This seems to be hard to find.
leetrout 3y ago
Oof. Dunno about "product manager == leadership"
- pc86 3y ago
  98% of product people give the decent 2% a really bad name.
- whiterknight 3y ago
  I have never had a product manager solve a problem for me. Even something like “which file formats does our customers prefer”. I ask 5 times they have meetings with me, eventually I just have to pick.
  - morkalork 3y ago
    I've had lots solve problems for me. The best ones are like a firewall against upper management's ADHD insanity.
- roncesvalles 3y ago
  Especially since PMs at most mid/large companies operate in built-up environments surrounded by great talent and all the resources they need. This doesn't translate well to operating within an early-stage startup. It's like a good driver doesn't make a good cyclist.
  - danielmarkbruce 3y ago
    Not unique to PMs. Basically nothing translates well to working in an early stage startup. Not even working in an early stage startup.
cultofmetatron 3y ago
THIS SO MUCH my cofounders paid me my full wage for the first year we worked together. it was seeing them check all these boxes and seeing them hustle to get us in the door along with proper market research that I could take action on as a technical contributor that made me take on an equity agreement. The irony is that their idea isn't that original or unprecedented. the difference is the execution.
pembrook 3y ago
Sure, this sounds like a great deal for you. But...what are you bringing to the table? There's 27 million software engineers. Let's say 99% of them are trash. That means there's 270,000 amazing engineers this mythical sales-machine-with-a-big-audience Founder could partner with. Do you have any successful exits? Have you built [Saas, B2C, Hard-tech] from the ground-up yourself before? Have you built & managed a team of engineers? Have you ever fundraised before? Do you have any connections? Do you have any audience? Do you have any product design taste? Etc. And let's say you do tick all those boxes. Then that's maybe an even bigger problem. Because if both of you are so amazingly talented and in-demand, are you really going to stick to it when the going gets tough (which it will)? Especially with a 500k/yr do-nothing middle management FAANG gig as your opportunity cost? What's most likely is neither of you will tick most of those boxes, and it won't actually matter, because the market and your product's fit will weigh much heavier on your success. Better to pick a co-founder with some of those qualities that you already know and have a good level of trust with. You can absolutely figure out the rest.
- papruapap 3y ago
  I think it was implied that OP has enough experience for those to be the minimal requirements so both bring the same value to the table.
  - pembrook 3y ago
    I would assume 99% of HN users (and most of people loudly proclaiming their high standards for a co-founder) do not fit that profile. This whole thread reads like a lot of 6's bragging how they only date 10's.
    - fendy3002 3y ago
      You know that getting a correct background of someone from hn comments are slim right?
    - rrr_oh_man 3y ago
      Read the article. It’s literally about that.
onlyrealcuzzo 3y ago
> I want to see your 100 send emails or 100 daily calls or 100 sent DMs everyday asking potential customers for feedback or validation conversations or to sign up for your beta If you trust your co-founder so little that you feel the need to check their work every day, maybe you shouldn't start a company together.
- SOLAR_FIELDS 3y ago
  I read parents comment as a one off you might do when vetting the founder not something that they would be checking every day. If someone shows me they cold dm’ed 100 people once in a day I would have no reason to believe that they wouldn’t be capable of doing it again or that they would lie to me about it
- em-bee 3y ago
  trust is earned. and those are just metrics to measure your progress. pick a different number, but co-founders should share what they are working on, just as much as developers in a team do. like in daily standups. when i was working with a co-founder i got regular feedback on the progress they made with regards to finding funding, etc. while i shared my progress on the development.
  - onlyrealcuzzo 3y ago
    I don't think you should start a company with someone you don't already trust is the entire point...
    - em-bee 3y ago
      if you don't already have a strong network of people that you have worked with in person, then what choice is there? i have to start somewhere. whether i am a co-founder, first hire or just a lead dev doesn't really matter. even if i know them but have never actually worked with them then that's not enough to trust them. but i can manage the risk.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
aerhardt 3y ago
I agree on domain and network. I’m pitched too many ideas where those things are close to zero and it’s a massive turn-off. Not so sure about your numbers however… I'd care more about depth of connections than raw volume, especially in B2B SaaS (maybe you’re right in B2C) Don’t care about your outreach numbers as long as you can own it and be effective at it. I can even help you with that grind and do 10-20% of it initially.
- zdragnar 3y ago
  The note about HR in #2 is telling. IME there is significant turnover in HR, and every new person wants to put their own stamp on the "company culture". You are constantly re-selling to your customers in this space. Having a significant network to start with is a pretty big boon nowadays, given how crowded the market is.
hackerlight 3y ago
Relevant YC videos: "Do Technical Founders Need Business Co-Founders?" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=43RhhwpiSk0&ab_channel=YCombinator https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=43RhhwpiSk0&ab_channel=YComb... "How To Build A Tech Startup With No Technical Skills" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZpKu2wvquWg&ab_channel=YCombinator https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZpKu2wvquWg&ab_channel=YComb...
deadbabe 3y ago
6. A very high net worth or family wealth. Without this, you’re not really bringing anything useful to the table.
airstrike 3y ago
If you want to be my technical cofounder, you are going to tick most of these boxes: 1. You have at least 8-10 years of experience in the technical domain, with some of it in a leadership position (e.g., lead developer or CTO). 2. You have a significant portfolio or demonstrable projects. Especially important if this is a SaaS product or B2C. Not as crucial if this is hard tech (e.g., biotech). But if we're launching a software for HR, I expect you to have built scalable platforms before. If it's a martech startup, show me the sophisticated algorithms or tools you've developed that can handle big data. 3. You have already collaborated with or led at least 25 people in technical projects, collecting feedback on your work, understanding user needs, and iterating on your solutions. These collaborations are documented and easily shared with me. 4. You preferably have been a key technical lead in at least 1 successful startup, or a few that didn't make it is okay too (but I would need references to ensure they failed for legitimate technical challenges)—the worse is 0 years of experience in startup environments. 5. You are a code commit and problem-solving junkie. Because you will OWN product development in the early days. I want to see your 100 lines of code per day, your daily problem-solving on GitHub, or your 100 weekly commits pushing our product forward, asking for feedback, iterating on the platform, or preparing for our beta.
- triceratops 3y ago
  I know you think you're making a point here but you aren't. Half your list is sensible table stakes for a technical co-founder especially the technical and leadership experience. A serious business-side founder shouldn't team up with a green technical co-founder; they'd be better off finding a contractor to build their specific idea. But #3 and #5 on your list are dumb. Their equivalents for the "ideas" co-founder were about validating that specific business idea and problem. Whereas you're just trying to score cheap points.
  - threatofrain 3y ago
    Also, some people really are superstars. If you want work with them when they're already celebrities in the field, then sure, that's who you want to work with. Once you're in the celebrity sphere you can stop thinking of checkboxes.
xtracto 3y ago
I've been a CTO for several startups now, and currently am a Technical Advisor for a couple of startups. The best "non-technical" cofounders I've met are relentless negotiators and have that magic ability to sell. They can squeeze orange juice from a rock if needed. That sort of people's skills is what differentiates a technical from a business person. I've been amazed by some of these guys and how they are able to get great terms from VCs, providers, customers and other parties. When you are the technical guy, you want to make sure that your non-technical cofonuder knows plenty of negotiation jujitsu so that while you are working on the machine, he has all the bases covered getting money, selling the idea and getting other great people into the company. One of my CEOs put it pretty bluntly: When you are starting and are just 2 or 3 people, there are only two roles: BUILD SHIT, and SELL SHIT. You necessarily need at least one person who knows very well how to do that. Also, the CEO never stops Selling shit. He may not sell to customers, but he will keep selling to investors, government agencies, prospective employees or advisors, etc.

aster0id 3y ago

Agree, almost the same requirements for me. I would be okay with just 1, 3 and 5 though.

reneherse 3y ago
That's odd and I agree entirely.
hobofan 3y ago
> the worse is 0 years of experience starting a company I think that's a crucial point of 4. I'm not sure if actual founding experience is necessary (as long as the company structure/cap table looks good if going the VC route). However a managing director position or something similar would definitely be something I'd look for nowadays as a lot of people seem to underestimate what that role entails and/or don't cope well with having the final responsibility in a organization structure.
- rrr_oh_man 3y ago
  ex enterprise MD‘s have been among the worst fucking startup founders I’ve ever encountered. Close second to startup idea bros.

diffstrokes 3y ago

Agree, though I prefer B2B SaaS and someone who has a very solid B2B sales background and, at least, a good idea. This seems to be hard to find.

leetrout 3y ago

Oof. Dunno about "product manager == leadership"

pc86 3y ago
98% of product people give the decent 2% a really bad name.
whiterknight 3y ago
I have never had a product manager solve a problem for me. Even something like “which file formats does our customers prefer”. I ask 5 times they have meetings with me, eventually I just have to pick.
- morkalork 3y ago
  I've had lots solve problems for me. The best ones are like a firewall against upper management's ADHD insanity.
roncesvalles 3y ago
Especially since PMs at most mid/large companies operate in built-up environments surrounded by great talent and all the resources they need. This doesn't translate well to operating within an early-stage startup. It's like a good driver doesn't make a good cyclist.
- danielmarkbruce 3y ago
  Not unique to PMs. Basically nothing translates well to working in an early stage startup. Not even working in an early stage startup.

cultofmetatron 3y ago

THIS SO MUCH my cofounders paid me my full wage for the first year we worked together. it was seeing them check all these boxes and seeing them hustle to get us in the door along with proper market research that I could take action on as a technical contributor that made me take on an equity agreement. The irony is that their idea isn't that original or unprecedented. the difference is the execution.

pembrook 3y ago

Sure, this sounds like a great deal for you. But...what are you bringing to the table? There's 27 million software engineers. Let's say 99% of them are trash. That means there's 270,000 amazing engineers this mythical sales-machine-with-a-big-audience Founder could partner with. Do you have any successful exits? Have you built [Saas, B2C, Hard-tech] from the ground-up yourself before? Have you built & managed a team of engineers? Have you ever fundraised before? Do you have any connections? Do you have any audience? Do you have any product design taste? Etc. And let's say you do tick all those boxes. Then that's maybe an even bigger problem. Because if both of you are so amazingly talented and in-demand, are you really going to stick to it when the going gets tough (which it will)? Especially with a 500k/yr do-nothing middle management FAANG gig as your opportunity cost? What's most likely is neither of you will tick most of those boxes, and it won't actually matter, because the market and your product's fit will weigh much heavier on your success. Better to pick a co-founder with some of those qualities that you already know and have a good level of trust with. You can absolutely figure out the rest.

papruapap 3y ago
I think it was implied that OP has enough experience for those to be the minimal requirements so both bring the same value to the table.
- pembrook 3y ago
  I would assume 99% of HN users (and most of people loudly proclaiming their high standards for a co-founder) do not fit that profile. This whole thread reads like a lot of 6's bragging how they only date 10's.
  - fendy3002 3y ago
    You know that getting a correct background of someone from hn comments are slim right?
  - rrr_oh_man 3y ago
    Read the article. It’s literally about that.

onlyrealcuzzo 3y ago

> I want to see your 100 send emails or 100 daily calls or 100 sent DMs everyday asking potential customers for feedback or validation conversations or to sign up for your beta If you trust your co-founder so little that you feel the need to check their work every day, maybe you shouldn't start a company together.

SOLAR_FIELDS 3y ago
I read parents comment as a one off you might do when vetting the founder not something that they would be checking every day. If someone shows me they cold dm’ed 100 people once in a day I would have no reason to believe that they wouldn’t be capable of doing it again or that they would lie to me about it
em-bee 3y ago
trust is earned. and those are just metrics to measure your progress. pick a different number, but co-founders should share what they are working on, just as much as developers in a team do. like in daily standups. when i was working with a co-founder i got regular feedback on the progress they made with regards to finding funding, etc. while i shared my progress on the development.
- onlyrealcuzzo 3y ago
  I don't think you should start a company with someone you don't already trust is the entire point...
  - em-bee 3y ago
    if you don't already have a strong network of people that you have worked with in person, then what choice is there? i have to start somewhere. whether i am a co-founder, first hire or just a lead dev doesn't really matter. even if i know them but have never actually worked with them then that's not enough to trust them. but i can manage the risk.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

aerhardt 3y ago

I agree on domain and network. I’m pitched too many ideas where those things are close to zero and it’s a massive turn-off. Not so sure about your numbers however… I'd care more about depth of connections than raw volume, especially in B2B SaaS (maybe you’re right in B2C) Don’t care about your outreach numbers as long as you can own it and be effective at it. I can even help you with that grind and do 10-20% of it initially.

zdragnar 3y ago
The note about HR in #2 is telling. IME there is significant turnover in HR, and every new person wants to put their own stamp on the "company culture". You are constantly re-selling to your customers in this space. Having a significant network to start with is a pretty big boon nowadays, given how crowded the market is.

hackerlight 3y ago

Relevant YC videos: "Do Technical Founders Need Business Co-Founders?" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=43RhhwpiSk0&ab_channel=YCombinator https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=43RhhwpiSk0&ab_channel=YComb... "How To Build A Tech Startup With No Technical Skills" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZpKu2wvquWg&ab_channel=YCombinator https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZpKu2wvquWg&ab_channel=YComb...

deadbabe 3y ago

6. A very high net worth or family wealth. Without this, you’re not really bringing anything useful to the table.

airstrike 3y ago

If you want to be my technical cofounder, you are going to tick most of these boxes: 1. You have at least 8-10 years of experience in the technical domain, with some of it in a leadership position (e.g., lead developer or CTO). 2. You have a significant portfolio or demonstrable projects. Especially important if this is a SaaS product or B2C. Not as crucial if this is hard tech (e.g., biotech). But if we're launching a software for HR, I expect you to have built scalable platforms before. If it's a martech startup, show me the sophisticated algorithms or tools you've developed that can handle big data. 3. You have already collaborated with or led at least 25 people in technical projects, collecting feedback on your work, understanding user needs, and iterating on your solutions. These collaborations are documented and easily shared with me. 4. You preferably have been a key technical lead in at least 1 successful startup, or a few that didn't make it is okay too (but I would need references to ensure they failed for legitimate technical challenges)—the worse is 0 years of experience in startup environments. 5. You are a code commit and problem-solving junkie. Because you will OWN product development in the early days. I want to see your 100 lines of code per day, your daily problem-solving on GitHub, or your 100 weekly commits pushing our product forward, asking for feedback, iterating on the platform, or preparing for our beta.

triceratops 3y ago
I know you think you're making a point here but you aren't. Half your list is sensible table stakes for a technical co-founder especially the technical and leadership experience. A serious business-side founder shouldn't team up with a green technical co-founder; they'd be better off finding a contractor to build their specific idea. But #3 and #5 on your list are dumb. Their equivalents for the "ideas" co-founder were about validating that specific business idea and problem. Whereas you're just trying to score cheap points.
- threatofrain 3y ago
  Also, some people really are superstars. If you want work with them when they're already celebrities in the field, then sure, that's who you want to work with. Once you're in the celebrity sphere you can stop thinking of checkboxes.

xtracto 3y ago

I've been a CTO for several startups now, and currently am a Technical Advisor for a couple of startups. The best "non-technical" cofounders I've met are relentless negotiators and have that magic ability to sell. They can squeeze orange juice from a rock if needed. That sort of people's skills is what differentiates a technical from a business person. I've been amazed by some of these guys and how they are able to get great terms from VCs, providers, customers and other parties. When you are the technical guy, you want to make sure that your non-technical cofonuder knows plenty of negotiation jujitsu so that while you are working on the machine, he has all the bases covered getting money, selling the idea and getting other great people into the company. One of my CEOs put it pretty bluntly: When you are starting and are just 2 or 3 people, there are only two roles: BUILD SHIT, and SELL SHIT. You necessarily need at least one person who knows very well how to do that. Also, the CEO never stops Selling shit. He may not sell to customers, but he will keep selling to investors, government agencies, prospective employees or advisors, etc.