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> On average, the participants lost 10% of their body weight; reduced their waist circumference by 11% percent; and had lower blood pressure, body mass index, t

> On average, the participants lost 10% of their body weight; reduced their waist circumference by 11% percent; and had lower blood pressure, body mass index, triglycerides, blood sugar levels and insulin resistance. Any person that loses 10% their body weight through a diet is going to feel much better.

0xdada 3y ago
Any overweight person. I gained 10% of my bodyweight in the last 6 months and I haven't felt better. (Mostly eating plants though.)
- throwaway22032 3y ago
  Same here, though through eating meat. The complex people have around weight I find really strange. I'd be surprised if most of the mental health effects don't simply follow from the realisation that you are in control of your own weight. Feeling powerless is pretty shit.
  - slowmovintarget 3y ago
    It's not weight, it's BMI. If you shift your composition to muscle without changing your weight, that's still a dramatic improvement. This is not "a complex." Discussions of "losing weight" are typically short hand for reducing the percentage composition of fat in the body. If you're obese, changing composition will likely add many health benefits, and very often the overall weight of the person shifting said composition will be lower because they were carrying a lot of fat, and only added a reasonable amount of muscle if they took up exercise.
    - jonhohle 3y ago
      BMI doesn’t take into account muscle, just height. Bodybuilders, for example, usually have a “terrible” BMI and <5% body fat.
      - deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
      - nradov 3y ago
        True, but the amount of people who are technically "overweight" due to high muscle mass are statistically insignificant. Even most professional athletes are in the normal BMI range; it's only a few sports or positions that rely on power where they tend to be heavier.
      - wredue 3y ago
        BMI is a perfectly fine societal tool. It is a bit less effective individually, but that’s between you are your doctor. If your doctor says your BMI is bad, it ain’t cause you’re a body builder (and for the record, body builders leaving normal BMI also increases their risks of various health problems) Also, the vast majority of body builders are in “overweight”. Most muscle heavy gym goers should still be in normal BMI, or maybe the low end of overweight at a 10-15% body fat.
      - anonporridge 3y ago
        Waist to height ratio is a better measure for individuals that better measures the real problem of excess visceral fat. Should optimally be <0.5.
gwill 3y ago
unless they're already at a healthy weight or the diet is crap.
boringds 3y ago
I'd like to understand why, this doesn't sound obvious to me? Unhealthy overweight people, I can picture it, but otherwise? An athlete at 240 lbs might not see any benefit whatsoever for instance. In other cases I can also picture people gaining weight feeling much better under the right circumstances. All in one weight in itself doesn't mean much in isolation. That's why you have people with a high BMI that are healthier than people with a "normal" one.
- alistairSH 3y ago
  An athlete isn't going to lose 10% of their body weight through a dietary change - they're already eating pretty well. I suppose they could lose 10% through caloric restriction, but that wasn't part of this study.
- bumby 3y ago
  I suspect its because health is complicated, but eating less calories correlates with many more healthy outcomes. >An athlete at 240 lbs As a contrived example, somebody this big (athlete or not), is probably at an increased risk of sleep apnea. I know of some competitive athletes (with visible abs, no less) that were surprised to learn they have sleep apnea. After a CPAP they felt better. Alternatively, they could probably have lost weight (but no longer be as competitive in their chosen sport.) Some of the risk factors (gender, neck circumference) aren't the typical proxies we use to subjectively assess health as a layperson. >That's why you have people with a high BMI that are healthier than people with a "normal" one. This can be true, but it is not generalizable. Last I heard, something like 1% of people with a high BMI would fall into this camp.
  - watwut 3y ago
    > but eating less calories correlates with many more healthy outcomes Like, at some point, dying, lower heart rate, loosing hair, being cold, your weins collapsing, body eating own muscles.
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
InSteady 3y ago
>The ketogenic diet has been proven to be effective for treatment-resistant epileptic seizures by reducing the excitability of neurons in the brain >There is increasing evidence that psychiatric diseases such as schizophrenia and bipolar disorder stem from metabolic deficits in the brain, which affect the excitability of neurons, Sethi said. The researchers hypothesize that just as a ketogenic diet improves the rest of the body’s metabolism, it also improves the brain’s metabolism. I wouldn't be so quick to look for the most reductive/simple answer. Drastic dietary changes can have a huge impact on the microbiome, which can in turn lead to substantial changes in all kind of signaling between the gut and brain (in terms of hormones, immune molecules, neurotransmitter precursors, and much more). There may also be implications for cellular metabolism. As the quote above touches upon, many mental health disorders may have a component of disruptions to metabolism and energy balancing on the cellular level. Possibly including ADHD, autism, treatment resistant depression, and OCD, in addition to schizophrenia and treatment resistant epilepsy.
- looseyesterday 3y ago
  I agree, I do also wonder what the role of routine and following through on commitments is. Getting things done alone can make people feel better and more confident.
- kelipso 3y ago
  Yeah, I think the connection between mental illnesses and physical health is a seriously under researched topic. At least, it's not something that's in popular science anyway.
keybored 3y ago
The press release is from Stanford itself. Why would they (Stanford Medicine) fail to factor in correlation/causation?
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
dukeyukey 3y ago
Is that true for the ~30% of people in the US (higher almost everywhere else) who are not overweight?
lenerdenator 3y ago
Also, diets, regardless of what they make you eat, also have a habit of forcing you to make better choices regarding what it is you put in your body, meaning fewer foods loaded with ingredients that might not jive with the human neurological system.
- looseyesterday 3y ago
  I agree, also the act of following a routine or following through on a commitment could all help you make feel better.
- Cthulhu_ 3y ago
  > loaded with ingredients that might not jive with the human neurological system. This seems... handwavey at best, do you know of any concrete ingredients with proven negative effects on the neurological system or is this pure conjecture?
bandyaboot 3y ago
I think there’s more to it than that. Ketosis clearly has a strong effect on the brain as evidenced by its effectiveness in treating epilepsy.
watwut 3y ago
At some point, pretty soon, you are underweight and it sux. Especially when combined with anorexia.
loa_in_ 3y ago
Also they have just got a free dietician to plan their meals. Planning meals is a thing you spend a bit of time on and you want to get it right, a reasonably stressful doing.

0xdada 3y ago

Any overweight person. I gained 10% of my bodyweight in the last 6 months and I haven't felt better. (Mostly eating plants though.)

throwaway22032 3y ago
Same here, though through eating meat. The complex people have around weight I find really strange. I'd be surprised if most of the mental health effects don't simply follow from the realisation that you are in control of your own weight. Feeling powerless is pretty shit.
- slowmovintarget 3y ago
  It's not weight, it's BMI. If you shift your composition to muscle without changing your weight, that's still a dramatic improvement. This is not "a complex." Discussions of "losing weight" are typically short hand for reducing the percentage composition of fat in the body. If you're obese, changing composition will likely add many health benefits, and very often the overall weight of the person shifting said composition will be lower because they were carrying a lot of fat, and only added a reasonable amount of muscle if they took up exercise.
  - jonhohle 3y ago
    BMI doesn’t take into account muscle, just height. Bodybuilders, for example, usually have a “terrible” BMI and <5% body fat.
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
    - nradov 3y ago
      True, but the amount of people who are technically "overweight" due to high muscle mass are statistically insignificant. Even most professional athletes are in the normal BMI range; it's only a few sports or positions that rely on power where they tend to be heavier.
    - wredue 3y ago
      BMI is a perfectly fine societal tool. It is a bit less effective individually, but that’s between you are your doctor. If your doctor says your BMI is bad, it ain’t cause you’re a body builder (and for the record, body builders leaving normal BMI also increases their risks of various health problems) Also, the vast majority of body builders are in “overweight”. Most muscle heavy gym goers should still be in normal BMI, or maybe the low end of overweight at a 10-15% body fat.
    - anonporridge 3y ago
      Waist to height ratio is a better measure for individuals that better measures the real problem of excess visceral fat. Should optimally be <0.5.

gwill 3y ago

unless they're already at a healthy weight or the diet is crap.

boringds 3y ago

I'd like to understand why, this doesn't sound obvious to me? Unhealthy overweight people, I can picture it, but otherwise? An athlete at 240 lbs might not see any benefit whatsoever for instance. In other cases I can also picture people gaining weight feeling much better under the right circumstances. All in one weight in itself doesn't mean much in isolation. That's why you have people with a high BMI that are healthier than people with a "normal" one.

alistairSH 3y ago
An athlete isn't going to lose 10% of their body weight through a dietary change - they're already eating pretty well. I suppose they could lose 10% through caloric restriction, but that wasn't part of this study.
bumby 3y ago
I suspect its because health is complicated, but eating less calories correlates with many more healthy outcomes. >An athlete at 240 lbs As a contrived example, somebody this big (athlete or not), is probably at an increased risk of sleep apnea. I know of some competitive athletes (with visible abs, no less) that were surprised to learn they have sleep apnea. After a CPAP they felt better. Alternatively, they could probably have lost weight (but no longer be as competitive in their chosen sport.) Some of the risk factors (gender, neck circumference) aren't the typical proxies we use to subjectively assess health as a layperson. >That's why you have people with a high BMI that are healthier than people with a "normal" one. This can be true, but it is not generalizable. Last I heard, something like 1% of people with a high BMI would fall into this camp.
- watwut 3y ago
  > but eating less calories correlates with many more healthy outcomes Like, at some point, dying, lower heart rate, loosing hair, being cold, your weins collapsing, body eating own muscles.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]

InSteady 3y ago

>The ketogenic diet has been proven to be effective for treatment-resistant epileptic seizures by reducing the excitability of neurons in the brain >There is increasing evidence that psychiatric diseases such as schizophrenia and bipolar disorder stem from metabolic deficits in the brain, which affect the excitability of neurons, Sethi said. The researchers hypothesize that just as a ketogenic diet improves the rest of the body’s metabolism, it also improves the brain’s metabolism. I wouldn't be so quick to look for the most reductive/simple answer. Drastic dietary changes can have a huge impact on the microbiome, which can in turn lead to substantial changes in all kind of signaling between the gut and brain (in terms of hormones, immune molecules, neurotransmitter precursors, and much more). There may also be implications for cellular metabolism. As the quote above touches upon, many mental health disorders may have a component of disruptions to metabolism and energy balancing on the cellular level. Possibly including ADHD, autism, treatment resistant depression, and OCD, in addition to schizophrenia and treatment resistant epilepsy.

looseyesterday 3y ago
I agree, I do also wonder what the role of routine and following through on commitments is. Getting things done alone can make people feel better and more confident.
kelipso 3y ago
Yeah, I think the connection between mental illnesses and physical health is a seriously under researched topic. At least, it's not something that's in popular science anyway.

keybored 3y ago

The press release is from Stanford itself. Why would they (Stanford Medicine) fail to factor in correlation/causation?

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

dukeyukey 3y ago

Is that true for the ~30% of people in the US (higher almost everywhere else) who are not overweight?

lenerdenator 3y ago

Also, diets, regardless of what they make you eat, also have a habit of forcing you to make better choices regarding what it is you put in your body, meaning fewer foods loaded with ingredients that might not jive with the human neurological system.

looseyesterday 3y ago
I agree, also the act of following a routine or following through on a commitment could all help you make feel better.
Cthulhu_ 3y ago
> loaded with ingredients that might not jive with the human neurological system. This seems... handwavey at best, do you know of any concrete ingredients with proven negative effects on the neurological system or is this pure conjecture?

bandyaboot 3y ago

I think there’s more to it than that. Ketosis clearly has a strong effect on the brain as evidenced by its effectiveness in treating epilepsy.

watwut 3y ago

At some point, pretty soon, you are underweight and it sux. Especially when combined with anorexia.

loa_in_ 3y ago

Also they have just got a free dietician to plan their meals. Planning meals is a thing you spend a bit of time on and you want to get it right, a reasonably stressful doing.