6 ms·

First human case of avian flu in Texas

79 points by puttycat 3y ago

qzw 3y ago
3 pallets of toilet paper on the way. Just kidding, I already installed bidets during Covid. In all seriousness, even if we get into a pandemic again, unless we see mortality rates in the double digits, I doubt the world would go into prolonged lockdowns again.
- bryanlarsen 3y ago
  Especially if Texas is ground zero.
- SketchySeaBeast 3y ago
  I would hope that the majority learned that hygiene and masking are effective enough for us to continue to live our lives, but I doubt it.
  - huytersd 3y ago
    You won’t want to live your life normally if there is a 60% mortality rate airborne virus around.
    - SketchySeaBeast 3y ago
      Sure, if that proves to be the case I would happily lock myself up. I can quarantine with the best of them. But the fact of the matter is that we don't know a lot about H5N1 infections in people due to the extremely low number of known infections. The individual in question here appears to be having more mild symptoms.
      - huytersd 3y ago
        The number of infections is low in the US but we have a lot of data from China and south east Asia where it’s more prevalent. 800 people have been infected in total so far with about a 50% mortality rate since the late 90s.
        SketchySeaBeast 3y ago
        Do we know the rate they tested at? Do we think it's possible they caught everyone infected? To be clear in this, I took COVID very seriously, I still carry a mask in my pocket and use it when I travel, but I'm trying to be realistic about the situation.
        throwup238 3y ago
        > Do we think it's possible they caught everyone infected? It's not. The CDC only caught this case because they are proactively testing workers at farms that have confirmed animal outbreaks. > "The patient reported eye redness (consistent with conjunctivitis), as their only symptom, and is recovering." [1] Diseases like ebola or hendra virus that actually have 50%+ mortality rates don't have mild forms like this. [1] https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2024/p0401-avian-flu.html https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2024/p0401-avian-flu.html
    - foobarian 3y ago
      A virus with that kind of mortality rate would have no chance to spread very far anyway, so all good!
      - SAI_Peregrinus 3y ago
        That depends on the time difference between when it becomes transmissible and when it causes death. If it's short, it won't spread much. If it's long, it'll spread all over the place.
      - outworlder 3y ago
        > A virus with that kind of mortality rate would have no chance to spread very far anyway, so all good! Give it a two week incubation time (not that far-fetched) and it will spread far and wide.
  - TomSwirly 3y ago
    There are over a million dead in the United States for whom your statement is not true.
    - skyyler 3y ago
      Imagine how many more would have died if no one washed their hands.
      - TexanFeller 3y ago
        Very few. Covid mass infection events happened mostly through the air, much less so through touching a surface. We learned that early in the pandemic. Hand washing after the first few months was mostly kept as hygiene theatre and for preventing transmission of infections other than covid.
        skyyler 3y ago
        If you only wash your hands because of "hygiene theatre" please don't invite me to dinner.
        outworlder 3y ago
        That's not what they said. Read it again.
        outworlder 3y ago
        > Very few. Covid mass infection events happened mostly through the air, much less so through touching a surface. We learned that early in the pandemic. No, "we" didn't. The CDC and, by extension, much of the coverage was insisting on surface sanitization even though there was plenty of evidence for airborne transmission already. I distinctly remembered going with the CDC recommendations until a friend pointed me out to a bunch of published articles with a preponderance of evidence for airborne transmission. It took many months for the CDC and other agencies to change their stance, by which time the whole 'surface cleaning' was already entrenched in everyone's minds.
  - dist-epoch 3y ago
    The good news is that masks and hand sanitizers are much more effective against the flu, as seen in the pandemic when it virtually disappeared.
- dist-epoch 3y ago
  This exact virus (H5N1) has at least 15-30% mortality. The exact number is really hard to know, because there have been too few cases, but it's certain to be at least 20 times as deadly as SARS-CoV-2.
  - throwup238 3y ago
    No, that's not certain at all. The total number of confirmed human cases in the world is under a thousand [1] in 20 years. That's not enough data to get any kind of mortality statistic for an influenza variant. Chances are >99% of cases are so mild they were never tested. It's pretty surprising this one was detected at all. It's only the second confirmed case in the US despite tons of confirmed animal cases in poultry and migratory birds. [1] https://www.cdc.gov/flu/avianflu/chart-epi-curve-ah5n1.html https://www.cdc.gov/flu/avianflu/chart-epi-curve-ah5n1.html
    - dist-epoch 3y ago
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_mortality_from_H5N1 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_mortality_from_H5N1 > It's only the second confirmed case We know it doesn't transmit very well in humans. Luckily people have been working on that: https://www.scientificamerican.com/blog/observations/controversial-bird-flu-research-published-how-worried-should-we-be/ https://www.scientificamerican.com/blog/observations/controv...
      - throwup238 3y ago
        https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2024/p0401-avian-flu.html https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2024/p0401-avian-flu.html > The patient reported eye redness (consistent with conjunctivitis), as their only symptom, and is recovering. This is not a disease with a double digit mortality rate, no matter how many times people try to do math with a three digit sample size of poor people in developing countries. The CDC only caught this case because it's literally testing anyone with symptoms at the cattle farm.
      - jazzyjackson 3y ago
- unethical_ban 3y ago
  Lockdowns make sense if emergency rooms cannot keep up with the emergency rate. Other than that*, we'll see a lot of people going back to WFH on a temp basis and lots of masks and hand sanitizer.
  - kurthr 3y ago
    Yeah, this is why lockdowns were started. The ER was full of sick people and, if you were in a car wreck or had a heart attack, you would likely die from lack of beds. Go back and look and the ER/ICU/All-Bed occupancy rates were >95% over most of the country for months. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8852235/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8852235/ This is what it looked like in Dec 2020: https://www.statista.com/chart/23746/icu-bed-occupancy-rates-in-us-hospital-areas/ https://www.statista.com/chart/23746/icu-bed-occupancy-rates...
    - bigtex 3y ago
      Why does a private hospital's ER capacity dictate my ability to freely move about?
      - th0ma5 3y ago
        Because you live in a society.
        bigtex 3y ago
        [flagged]
        deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
        doodlebugging 3y ago
        As a Texan, if you depend on our elected people to keep you informed about anything important you're probably backing the wrong horse. Unelected people like public health experts should always be important parts of any discussions about issues that affect the health and safety of all members of a community. They can work with elected representatives to help define policy and guidelines that protect our property and keep us all employed and healthy. Ignoring the input of unelected experts is dangerous to society and leads to exactly the conditions we have now where people chose sides based on partisan identity politics instead of solid pandemic management principles. We can't elect everyone who should have a voice in defining policy but we can consult them and take advantage of their expertise and skills when bad things happen. You don't gripe when other disasters like prairie fires require evacuation notices do you? Those people are also unelected. They are also recognized experts at their trades who spend their careers trying to keep us all safe.
- huytersd 3y ago
  This flu has a 60% mortality rate. If it becomes airborne you can bet there will be lockdowns.
  - dist-epoch 3y ago
    Martial law, not lockdowns.
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
- znpy 3y ago
  As an European… sigh, bidets are not a replacement for toilet paper… > unless we see mortality rates in the double digits, I doubt the world would go into prolonged lockdowns again. You should have learned from the last pandemic that going in a lockdown is the prevention measure to avoid mortality rate in the double digits…
  - jerlam 3y ago
    Likely referring to the Japanese-style bidet, aka washlet, which have a built-in dryer so zero toilet paper is required. But even a cheap one without a dryer will drastically reduce the amount of toilet paper required.
    - qzw 3y ago
      Yes, they're only called bidets for lack of a better word in English. Mine has adjustable water temp, heated seat, air dry, variable pressure, front/rear wash, oscillation, and several more modes I've not even dared to try yet. Got mine from Costco during one of their periodic sales. I highly recommend them even when there's no toilet paper shortage.
  - 015a 3y ago
    > going in a lockdown is the prevention measure to avoid mortality rate in the double digits… Huh? Mortality rate is the mortality rate, its independent of a lockdown; unless more vulnerable people are "locking down" at rates different than less vulnerable ones, but at that point we're not talking about a "lockdown". The purpose of the COVID lockdown wasn't to suppress the mortality rate; it was to suppress the total infected/mortality.
    - michaelmrose 3y ago
      In normal times the experienced mortality rate is based on most of the sickest people receiving supportive care in the hospital that greatly blunts mortality rate. When your medical needs exceed resources mortality rate converges toward untreated mortality rate. Try this on for size what is the untreated mortality rate of a single gunshot wound to the chest. Its close to 100% but the overwhelming majority survive with prompt treatment. You wouldn't say that the mortality rate was what it is.
- michaelmrose 3y ago
  9% mortality (with treatment) with flu like transmission rates would quickly destroy the functionality of our medical system. Soon new patients would live or die with no medical care and death rate for the diseases and anyone who is at risk of dying wo care would skyrocket. 50M people would ultimately die in the US alone everything would collapse and people would lock down of their own accord.
- outworlder 3y ago
  > I doubt the world would go into prolonged lockdowns again. Most of the world didn't go into any lockdowns. Sure, most gatherings were banned and places like restaurants couldn't have people dining in. But most people could go outside and do almost anything they wanted, provided they didn't gather in crowds. The lockdowns like China enforced where people had their doors barred and could only leave once a week for groceries (or had groceries delivered by the government) were an outlier. If we ever see mortality rates in the double digits, expect real lockdowns.
  - AniseAbyss 3y ago
    [dead]
  - mike_hearn 3y ago
    Most countries implemented policies they called "lockdowns" so whatever personal definition you're using isn't very helpful. Certainly, being able to go outside was seen as a regrettable bug and not a feature in many places. For example, the UK police notoriously used drones to find couples sitting on park benches. Where I live I was forbidden from leaving my apartment for a couple of weeks when my wife got COVID, for any reason except purchasing groceries. So that was definitely a China-style lockdown. > If we ever see mortality rates in the double digits, expect real lockdowns. We'll see them because our ruling classes are psychologically and politically unable to push back on corrupt academics, not because they work. Lockdowns had no effect on COVID because respiratory viruses are able to spread long distances on air currents, but lockdown policy assumes they can't.
    - outworlder 3y ago
      > Where I live I was forbidden from leaving my apartment for a couple of weeks when my wife got COVID So, you were told to self isolate because you were in a household with a sick individual. Wouldn't that be the prudent thing to do anyway? Also, what does 'forbidden' means? What would have happened if you went out anyway? > Lockdowns had no effect on COVID because respiratory viruses are able to spread long distances on air currents Citation needed. Also, the viral load at 'long distances' is unlikely to be problematic.
- flandish 3y ago
  > again We are still “in” one, in all seriousness.
0cf8612b2e1e 3y ago
Just started playing Talos Principle 2 and cross species infections is really on my mind. For those who enjoyed Portal, it is a nice first person puzzler. Completely different mechanics. I do not think it required much (any?) high precision/twitch actions. Not finished, but I think I am preferring original Talos Principle vs Two, because there were not so many annoying NPCs in the first.
- inputError 3y ago
  [dead]
offtrail 3y ago
[flagged]
kube-system 3y ago
> The illness is mild and the worker is expected to recover How do cases like this ever get diagnosed? IME the standard of care for mild respiratory illness in the US tends to be basic symptom management, or maybe a standard diagnostic panel to determine whether to prescribe antibiotics. How does someone with mild symptoms get tested for a rare virus in the first place?
- shawabawa3 3y ago
  Seems it was diagnosed in cattle and this was a dairy worker, so probably everyone working in contact with infected cattle are tested
  - throwup238 3y ago
    From the CDC press release: > CDC is working with state health departments to continue to monitor workers who may have been in contact with infected or potentially infected birds/animals and test those people who develop symptoms. [1] [1] https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2024/p0401-avian-flu.html https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2024/p0401-avian-flu.html
angryasian 3y ago
Any status of the human that caught the "Texas Flu"
1letterunixname 3y ago
This is just 1 of the problems with animal ag. - Pandemics - Antibiotic resistance (The sheer stupidity of using the same antibiotics we depend on to stay alive just to make animals grow faster and be more profitable.) - Climate change (1/6th of all emissions) - Soil, air, water pollution - Deforestation - Higher food prices - Less net food available

79 points by puttycat 3y ago

qzw 3y ago

3 pallets of toilet paper on the way. Just kidding, I already installed bidets during Covid. In all seriousness, even if we get into a pandemic again, unless we see mortality rates in the double digits, I doubt the world would go into prolonged lockdowns again.

bryanlarsen 3y ago
Especially if Texas is ground zero.
SketchySeaBeast 3y ago
I would hope that the majority learned that hygiene and masking are effective enough for us to continue to live our lives, but I doubt it.
- huytersd 3y ago
  You won’t want to live your life normally if there is a 60% mortality rate airborne virus around.
  - SketchySeaBeast 3y ago
    Sure, if that proves to be the case I would happily lock myself up. I can quarantine with the best of them. But the fact of the matter is that we don't know a lot about H5N1 infections in people due to the extremely low number of known infections. The individual in question here appears to be having more mild symptoms.
    - huytersd 3y ago
      The number of infections is low in the US but we have a lot of data from China and south east Asia where it’s more prevalent. 800 people have been infected in total so far with about a 50% mortality rate since the late 90s.
      - SketchySeaBeast 3y ago
        Do we know the rate they tested at? Do we think it's possible they caught everyone infected? To be clear in this, I took COVID very seriously, I still carry a mask in my pocket and use it when I travel, but I'm trying to be realistic about the situation.
        throwup238 3y ago
        > Do we think it's possible they caught everyone infected? It's not. The CDC only caught this case because they are proactively testing workers at farms that have confirmed animal outbreaks. > "The patient reported eye redness (consistent with conjunctivitis), as their only symptom, and is recovering." [1] Diseases like ebola or hendra virus that actually have 50%+ mortality rates don't have mild forms like this. [1] https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2024/p0401-avian-flu.html https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2024/p0401-avian-flu.html
  - foobarian 3y ago
    A virus with that kind of mortality rate would have no chance to spread very far anyway, so all good!
    - SAI_Peregrinus 3y ago
      That depends on the time difference between when it becomes transmissible and when it causes death. If it's short, it won't spread much. If it's long, it'll spread all over the place.
    - outworlder 3y ago
      > A virus with that kind of mortality rate would have no chance to spread very far anyway, so all good! Give it a two week incubation time (not that far-fetched) and it will spread far and wide.
- TomSwirly 3y ago
  There are over a million dead in the United States for whom your statement is not true.
  - skyyler 3y ago
    Imagine how many more would have died if no one washed their hands.
    - TexanFeller 3y ago
      Very few. Covid mass infection events happened mostly through the air, much less so through touching a surface. We learned that early in the pandemic. Hand washing after the first few months was mostly kept as hygiene theatre and for preventing transmission of infections other than covid.
      - skyyler 3y ago
        If you only wash your hands because of "hygiene theatre" please don't invite me to dinner.
        outworlder 3y ago
        That's not what they said. Read it again.
      - outworlder 3y ago
        > Very few. Covid mass infection events happened mostly through the air, much less so through touching a surface. We learned that early in the pandemic. No, "we" didn't. The CDC and, by extension, much of the coverage was insisting on surface sanitization even though there was plenty of evidence for airborne transmission already. I distinctly remembered going with the CDC recommendations until a friend pointed me out to a bunch of published articles with a preponderance of evidence for airborne transmission. It took many months for the CDC and other agencies to change their stance, by which time the whole 'surface cleaning' was already entrenched in everyone's minds.
- dist-epoch 3y ago
  The good news is that masks and hand sanitizers are much more effective against the flu, as seen in the pandemic when it virtually disappeared.
dist-epoch 3y ago
This exact virus (H5N1) has at least 15-30% mortality. The exact number is really hard to know, because there have been too few cases, but it's certain to be at least 20 times as deadly as SARS-CoV-2.
- throwup238 3y ago
  No, that's not certain at all. The total number of confirmed human cases in the world is under a thousand [1] in 20 years. That's not enough data to get any kind of mortality statistic for an influenza variant. Chances are >99% of cases are so mild they were never tested. It's pretty surprising this one was detected at all. It's only the second confirmed case in the US despite tons of confirmed animal cases in poultry and migratory birds. [1] https://www.cdc.gov/flu/avianflu/chart-epi-curve-ah5n1.html https://www.cdc.gov/flu/avianflu/chart-epi-curve-ah5n1.html
  - dist-epoch 3y ago
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_mortality_from_H5N1 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_mortality_from_H5N1 > It's only the second confirmed case We know it doesn't transmit very well in humans. Luckily people have been working on that: https://www.scientificamerican.com/blog/observations/controversial-bird-flu-research-published-how-worried-should-we-be/ https://www.scientificamerican.com/blog/observations/controv...
    - throwup238 3y ago
      https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2024/p0401-avian-flu.html https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2024/p0401-avian-flu.html > The patient reported eye redness (consistent with conjunctivitis), as their only symptom, and is recovering. This is not a disease with a double digit mortality rate, no matter how many times people try to do math with a three digit sample size of poor people in developing countries. The CDC only caught this case because it's literally testing anyone with symptoms at the cattle farm.
    - jazzyjackson 3y ago
unethical_ban 3y ago
Lockdowns make sense if emergency rooms cannot keep up with the emergency rate. Other than that*, we'll see a lot of people going back to WFH on a temp basis and lots of masks and hand sanitizer.
- kurthr 3y ago
  Yeah, this is why lockdowns were started. The ER was full of sick people and, if you were in a car wreck or had a heart attack, you would likely die from lack of beds. Go back and look and the ER/ICU/All-Bed occupancy rates were >95% over most of the country for months. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8852235/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8852235/ This is what it looked like in Dec 2020: https://www.statista.com/chart/23746/icu-bed-occupancy-rates-in-us-hospital-areas/ https://www.statista.com/chart/23746/icu-bed-occupancy-rates...
  - bigtex 3y ago
    Why does a private hospital's ER capacity dictate my ability to freely move about?
    - th0ma5 3y ago
      Because you live in a society.
      - bigtex 3y ago
        [flagged]
        deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
        doodlebugging 3y ago
        As a Texan, if you depend on our elected people to keep you informed about anything important you're probably backing the wrong horse. Unelected people like public health experts should always be important parts of any discussions about issues that affect the health and safety of all members of a community. They can work with elected representatives to help define policy and guidelines that protect our property and keep us all employed and healthy. Ignoring the input of unelected experts is dangerous to society and leads to exactly the conditions we have now where people chose sides based on partisan identity politics instead of solid pandemic management principles. We can't elect everyone who should have a voice in defining policy but we can consult them and take advantage of their expertise and skills when bad things happen. You don't gripe when other disasters like prairie fires require evacuation notices do you? Those people are also unelected. They are also recognized experts at their trades who spend their careers trying to keep us all safe.
huytersd 3y ago
This flu has a 60% mortality rate. If it becomes airborne you can bet there will be lockdowns.
- dist-epoch 3y ago
  Martial law, not lockdowns.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
znpy 3y ago
As an European… sigh, bidets are not a replacement for toilet paper… > unless we see mortality rates in the double digits, I doubt the world would go into prolonged lockdowns again. You should have learned from the last pandemic that going in a lockdown is the prevention measure to avoid mortality rate in the double digits…
- jerlam 3y ago
  Likely referring to the Japanese-style bidet, aka washlet, which have a built-in dryer so zero toilet paper is required. But even a cheap one without a dryer will drastically reduce the amount of toilet paper required.
  - qzw 3y ago
    Yes, they're only called bidets for lack of a better word in English. Mine has adjustable water temp, heated seat, air dry, variable pressure, front/rear wash, oscillation, and several more modes I've not even dared to try yet. Got mine from Costco during one of their periodic sales. I highly recommend them even when there's no toilet paper shortage.
- 015a 3y ago
  > going in a lockdown is the prevention measure to avoid mortality rate in the double digits… Huh? Mortality rate is the mortality rate, its independent of a lockdown; unless more vulnerable people are "locking down" at rates different than less vulnerable ones, but at that point we're not talking about a "lockdown". The purpose of the COVID lockdown wasn't to suppress the mortality rate; it was to suppress the total infected/mortality.
  - michaelmrose 3y ago
    In normal times the experienced mortality rate is based on most of the sickest people receiving supportive care in the hospital that greatly blunts mortality rate. When your medical needs exceed resources mortality rate converges toward untreated mortality rate. Try this on for size what is the untreated mortality rate of a single gunshot wound to the chest. Its close to 100% but the overwhelming majority survive with prompt treatment. You wouldn't say that the mortality rate was what it is.
michaelmrose 3y ago
9% mortality (with treatment) with flu like transmission rates would quickly destroy the functionality of our medical system. Soon new patients would live or die with no medical care and death rate for the diseases and anyone who is at risk of dying wo care would skyrocket. 50M people would ultimately die in the US alone everything would collapse and people would lock down of their own accord.
outworlder 3y ago
> I doubt the world would go into prolonged lockdowns again. Most of the world didn't go into any lockdowns. Sure, most gatherings were banned and places like restaurants couldn't have people dining in. But most people could go outside and do almost anything they wanted, provided they didn't gather in crowds. The lockdowns like China enforced where people had their doors barred and could only leave once a week for groceries (or had groceries delivered by the government) were an outlier. If we ever see mortality rates in the double digits, expect real lockdowns.
- AniseAbyss 3y ago
  [dead]
- mike_hearn 3y ago
  Most countries implemented policies they called "lockdowns" so whatever personal definition you're using isn't very helpful. Certainly, being able to go outside was seen as a regrettable bug and not a feature in many places. For example, the UK police notoriously used drones to find couples sitting on park benches. Where I live I was forbidden from leaving my apartment for a couple of weeks when my wife got COVID, for any reason except purchasing groceries. So that was definitely a China-style lockdown. > If we ever see mortality rates in the double digits, expect real lockdowns. We'll see them because our ruling classes are psychologically and politically unable to push back on corrupt academics, not because they work. Lockdowns had no effect on COVID because respiratory viruses are able to spread long distances on air currents, but lockdown policy assumes they can't.
  - outworlder 3y ago
    > Where I live I was forbidden from leaving my apartment for a couple of weeks when my wife got COVID So, you were told to self isolate because you were in a household with a sick individual. Wouldn't that be the prudent thing to do anyway? Also, what does 'forbidden' means? What would have happened if you went out anyway? > Lockdowns had no effect on COVID because respiratory viruses are able to spread long distances on air currents Citation needed. Also, the viral load at 'long distances' is unlikely to be problematic.
flandish 3y ago
> again We are still “in” one, in all seriousness.

0cf8612b2e1e 3y ago

Just started playing Talos Principle 2 and cross species infections is really on my mind. For those who enjoyed Portal, it is a nice first person puzzler. Completely different mechanics. I do not think it required much (any?) high precision/twitch actions. Not finished, but I think I am preferring original Talos Principle vs Two, because there were not so many annoying NPCs in the first.

inputError 3y ago
[dead]

offtrail 3y ago

[flagged]

kube-system 3y ago

> The illness is mild and the worker is expected to recover How do cases like this ever get diagnosed? IME the standard of care for mild respiratory illness in the US tends to be basic symptom management, or maybe a standard diagnostic panel to determine whether to prescribe antibiotics. How does someone with mild symptoms get tested for a rare virus in the first place?

shawabawa3 3y ago
Seems it was diagnosed in cattle and this was a dairy worker, so probably everyone working in contact with infected cattle are tested
- throwup238 3y ago
  From the CDC press release: > CDC is working with state health departments to continue to monitor workers who may have been in contact with infected or potentially infected birds/animals and test those people who develop symptoms. [1] [1] https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2024/p0401-avian-flu.html https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2024/p0401-avian-flu.html

angryasian 3y ago

Any status of the human that caught the "Texas Flu"

1letterunixname 3y ago

This is just 1 of the problems with animal ag. - Pandemics - Antibiotic resistance (The sheer stupidity of using the same antibiotics we depend on to stay alive just to make animals grow faster and be more profitable.) - Climate change (1/6th of all emissions) - Soil, air, water pollution - Deforestation - Higher food prices - Less net food available