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Musk has completely tumbled down the far-right rabbit hole at this point so I’m not surprised he thinks Ukraine should just roll over.

by wumeow 3y ago

hollerith 3y ago
So you're so certain that Ukraine's military position is solid that anyone who disagrees with you must be a political enemy?
- downrightmike 3y ago
  Yes, its literally freedom vs Nazis2.0. There's literally no way to support Russia and not be an enemy of humanity. The two are mutually exclusive.
  - rrr_oh_man 3y ago
    Honestly asking: What do you mean by enemy of humanity? (Humanity has been around for 300,000+ years and there has probably not been one year without violent conflict)
    - downrightmike 3y ago
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hostis_humani_generis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hostis_humani_generis
      - rrr_oh_man 3y ago
        How does this answer the question in that specific context? Do you honestly view the associated (nation) state and all of its inhabitants of any invading army as "pirates and/or terrorists"?
        mopsi 3y ago
        Russia is committing crimes against humanity with overwhelming popular support: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crimes_against_humanity https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crimes_against_humanity They are no different than Nazi-Germany. You can't support Russia without supporting the crimes. They are as inseparably linked as Nazi-Germany and their crimes against humanity. There was no way to support Germany in 1942 and remain a moral person, and there is no way to support Russia in 2024 without being either a disgusting soulless bastard or a total moron. "Negotiated settlement" sounds attractive in its sophistication, but in practice it means leaving people in occupied territories for Russians to torture, rape and murder: https://bylinetimes.com/2024/03/13/the-hallmark-of-russian-occupation-torture/ https://bylinetimes.com/2024/03/13/the-hallmark-of-russian-o... It's as "great" idea as stopping after the liberation of Paris in 1944 and offering Hitler a deal that would've allowed him to continue the Holocaust in still-occupied parts of France if only he promised to stop the fighting on the frontlines. People who propose ideas like this are either uneducated morons or fundamentally evil.
  - iperboreo 3y ago
    [flagged]
    - downrightmike 3y ago
      [flagged]
    - mopsi 3y ago
      > People who identify themselves as Russians in Donbass have the right not to be threatened by Ukranian nationalists And how have they fared since February 2022? Entire cities wiped under relentless Russian artillery, homes and businesses destroyed or looted, family members tortured, raped, kidnapped or murdered, and entire generations of men forcibly conscripted into meat attacks against their compatriots.
      - iperboreo 3y ago
        [flagged]
    - partiallypro 3y ago
      Interestingly your account joined 9 days ago, and this is your only post, this is one of the only times I've seen someone outright support Russia's invasion of Ukraine on this site. People in the Donbass voted -for- Zelenskyy before the invasion. So, your point is nonsense. Putin panicked because he wanted a puppet state with tons of agricultural and oil exports, and it turned against his planted head of state.
      - hollerith 3y ago
        >Putin . . . wanted a puppet state with tons of agricultural and oil exports Ukraine is a net oil and gas importer and always has been.
        partiallypro 3y ago
        The entire idea of taking over Ukraine is to steal its resources and they would become a net exporter with a fairly small upfront investment. If Russia controlled Ukraine, they would control ~30% of the World's fertilizer distribution, tons of grain, and would give them a stronger foothold on natural gas distribution and oil reserves, all while being on Poland's doorstep. Putin is a Eurasianist, he doesn't care about the people in Eastern Ukraine. https://hir.harvard.edu/ukraine-energy-reserves/ https://hir.harvard.edu/ukraine-energy-reserves/ https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/natural-resources-ukraine-war-1.6467039 https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/natural-resources-ukraine-w... https://www.cnbc.com/2022/04/06/a-fertilizer-shortage-worsened-by-war-in-ukraine-is-driving-up-global-food-prices-and-scarcity.html https://www.cnbc.com/2022/04/06/a-fertilizer-shortage-worsen... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_gas_transmission_system_of_Ukraine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_gas_transmission_syste...
- wumeow 3y ago
  I’m making no claims about Ukraine’s military position, I’m saying Mr “close to zero new cases by end of April” Musk makes predictions based wholly on his political feelings instead of any sort of rational analysis, and given that he follows David Sacks and posts memes like this[0], I’m not surprised he thinks Ukraine should stop trying to reclaim territory and negotiate a settlement with an enemy that started the war by making a beeline for the capital. [0] https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1708629197617336398 https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1708629197617336398

Musk has completely tumbled down the far-right rabbit hole at this point so I’m not surprised he thinks Ukraine should just roll over.

by wumeow 3y ago

Musk has completely tumbled down the far-right rabbit hole at this point so I’m not surprised he thinks Ukraine should just roll over.

hollerith 3y ago

So you're so certain that Ukraine's military position is solid that anyone who disagrees with you must be a political enemy?

downrightmike 3y ago
Yes, its literally freedom vs Nazis2.0. There's literally no way to support Russia and not be an enemy of humanity. The two are mutually exclusive.
- rrr_oh_man 3y ago
  Honestly asking: What do you mean by enemy of humanity? (Humanity has been around for 300,000+ years and there has probably not been one year without violent conflict)
  - downrightmike 3y ago
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hostis_humani_generis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hostis_humani_generis
    - rrr_oh_man 3y ago
      How does this answer the question in that specific context? Do you honestly view the associated (nation) state and all of its inhabitants of any invading army as "pirates and/or terrorists"?
      - mopsi 3y ago
        Russia is committing crimes against humanity with overwhelming popular support: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crimes_against_humanity https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crimes_against_humanity They are no different than Nazi-Germany. You can't support Russia without supporting the crimes. They are as inseparably linked as Nazi-Germany and their crimes against humanity. There was no way to support Germany in 1942 and remain a moral person, and there is no way to support Russia in 2024 without being either a disgusting soulless bastard or a total moron. "Negotiated settlement" sounds attractive in its sophistication, but in practice it means leaving people in occupied territories for Russians to torture, rape and murder: https://bylinetimes.com/2024/03/13/the-hallmark-of-russian-occupation-torture/ https://bylinetimes.com/2024/03/13/the-hallmark-of-russian-o... It's as "great" idea as stopping after the liberation of Paris in 1944 and offering Hitler a deal that would've allowed him to continue the Holocaust in still-occupied parts of France if only he promised to stop the fighting on the frontlines. People who propose ideas like this are either uneducated morons or fundamentally evil.
- iperboreo 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - downrightmike 3y ago
    [flagged]
  - mopsi 3y ago
    > People who identify themselves as Russians in Donbass have the right not to be threatened by Ukranian nationalists And how have they fared since February 2022? Entire cities wiped under relentless Russian artillery, homes and businesses destroyed or looted, family members tortured, raped, kidnapped or murdered, and entire generations of men forcibly conscripted into meat attacks against their compatriots.
    - iperboreo 3y ago
      [flagged]
  - partiallypro 3y ago
    Interestingly your account joined 9 days ago, and this is your only post, this is one of the only times I've seen someone outright support Russia's invasion of Ukraine on this site. People in the Donbass voted -for- Zelenskyy before the invasion. So, your point is nonsense. Putin panicked because he wanted a puppet state with tons of agricultural and oil exports, and it turned against his planted head of state.
    - hollerith 3y ago
      >Putin . . . wanted a puppet state with tons of agricultural and oil exports Ukraine is a net oil and gas importer and always has been.
      - partiallypro 3y ago
        The entire idea of taking over Ukraine is to steal its resources and they would become a net exporter with a fairly small upfront investment. If Russia controlled Ukraine, they would control ~30% of the World's fertilizer distribution, tons of grain, and would give them a stronger foothold on natural gas distribution and oil reserves, all while being on Poland's doorstep. Putin is a Eurasianist, he doesn't care about the people in Eastern Ukraine. https://hir.harvard.edu/ukraine-energy-reserves/ https://hir.harvard.edu/ukraine-energy-reserves/ https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/natural-resources-ukraine-war-1.6467039 https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/natural-resources-ukraine-w... https://www.cnbc.com/2022/04/06/a-fertilizer-shortage-worsened-by-war-in-ukraine-is-driving-up-global-food-prices-and-scarcity.html https://www.cnbc.com/2022/04/06/a-fertilizer-shortage-worsen... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_gas_transmission_system_of_Ukraine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_gas_transmission_syste...
wumeow 3y ago
I’m making no claims about Ukraine’s military position, I’m saying Mr “close to zero new cases by end of April” Musk makes predictions based wholly on his political feelings instead of any sort of rational analysis, and given that he follows David Sacks and posts memes like this[0], I’m not surprised he thinks Ukraine should stop trying to reclaim territory and negotiate a settlement with an enemy that started the war by making a beeline for the capital. [0] https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1708629197617336398 https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1708629197617336398