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Would it be ethical to train a model to identify child porn so it could be excluded from training sets, or even the internet, automatically? It seems like an id

Would it be ethical to train a model to identify child porn so it could be excluded from training sets, or even the internet, automatically? It seems like an ideal very useful application for CV AI, but you might have to train it on CP to make it effective so…

Sabinus 3y ago
Hashes of existing child porn are created and disseminated for automated detection already, a CP detector model isn't too far from that.
- seanmcdirmid 3y ago
  Hashes just detect old unmodified content, not new stuff, or even AI generated stuff.
  - The_Colonel 3y ago
    It's also super easy to change the video slightly to alter the hash.
    - xanderlewis 3y ago
      Obviously, but the idea of creating a useful hash function in this case is to make it invariant under those sorts of to a human trivial transformations, whilst avoiding collisions between genuinely different content. Microsoft created something called PhotoDNA that tries to do this.
  - PlunderBunny 3y ago
    Wasn’t the hashing mechanism that Apple was proposing using capable of dealing with some attempts to obfuscate the CSAM image with edits?
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
roenxi 3y ago
[flagged]
- constantcrying 3y ago
  Furthering sexual the fantasies of pedophiles actually does not help children, but obviously creates predators as more people are exposed.
  - wesselbindt 3y ago
    That's not obvious to me at all. What if a trove of pornography provides a non-violent alternative, meaning fewer children get hurt? Either hypothesis seems at least somewhat likely, and boldly claiming that one or the other is true should be supported by at least some evidence. But even with AI generated porn, children get hurt indirectly imo, for the same reason using AI to generate art violates the property rights of artists.
  - roenxi 3y ago
    > ... but obviously creates predators as more people are exposed. If we look at more traditional porn; the uptick in availability seems to have correlated with less sex. And the advent of violent video-games is associated with no uptick in violence as far as I have been told, although it is getting harder for armies to recruit. I reckon the default position here is if you give people a dopamine hit when they are staring at a screen, they stare at a screen more. Not that they start harming others. The idea that we don't want marginal cases to wake up a sexual love for children makes sense to me, but I don't think more "predators" will be created; we'd probably just see a collapse in the economic incentives currently in place to harm children.
    - constantcrying 3y ago
      >the economic incentives currently in place to harm children I really do not believe in that. There isn't a single person in the world who chooses to be a child pornographer because the economics of it are good. They do it because it allows them to carry out their sexual fantasies, which are about abusing children. The abuse has to be the point, if it weren't just abstaining from it would be the only choice. It is extremely easy to comprehend that your sexual urges (which can be satisfied in a myriad ways) are monumentally less important than a childs wellbeing. Choosing your urges means that you are doing it because of the abuse, which of course any virtual recreation can not provide.
anon373839 3y ago
I can see some practical difficulties with this. The first one is that CSAM is radioactive and can’t be touched, so only a very limited circle of people could even approach this task. Related to that, the model weights would contain representations of the training data, which if distributed could then be used to get some of the source material back out.

Sabinus 3y ago

Hashes of existing child porn are created and disseminated for automated detection already, a CP detector model isn't too far from that.

seanmcdirmid 3y ago
Hashes just detect old unmodified content, not new stuff, or even AI generated stuff.
- The_Colonel 3y ago
  It's also super easy to change the video slightly to alter the hash.
  - xanderlewis 3y ago
    Obviously, but the idea of creating a useful hash function in this case is to make it invariant under those sorts of to a human trivial transformations, whilst avoiding collisions between genuinely different content. Microsoft created something called PhotoDNA that tries to do this.
- PlunderBunny 3y ago
  Wasn’t the hashing mechanism that Apple was proposing using capable of dealing with some attempts to obfuscate the CSAM image with edits?

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

roenxi 3y ago

[flagged]

constantcrying 3y ago
Furthering sexual the fantasies of pedophiles actually does not help children, but obviously creates predators as more people are exposed.
- wesselbindt 3y ago
  That's not obvious to me at all. What if a trove of pornography provides a non-violent alternative, meaning fewer children get hurt? Either hypothesis seems at least somewhat likely, and boldly claiming that one or the other is true should be supported by at least some evidence. But even with AI generated porn, children get hurt indirectly imo, for the same reason using AI to generate art violates the property rights of artists.
- roenxi 3y ago
  > ... but obviously creates predators as more people are exposed. If we look at more traditional porn; the uptick in availability seems to have correlated with less sex. And the advent of violent video-games is associated with no uptick in violence as far as I have been told, although it is getting harder for armies to recruit. I reckon the default position here is if you give people a dopamine hit when they are staring at a screen, they stare at a screen more. Not that they start harming others. The idea that we don't want marginal cases to wake up a sexual love for children makes sense to me, but I don't think more "predators" will be created; we'd probably just see a collapse in the economic incentives currently in place to harm children.
  - constantcrying 3y ago
    >the economic incentives currently in place to harm children I really do not believe in that. There isn't a single person in the world who chooses to be a child pornographer because the economics of it are good. They do it because it allows them to carry out their sexual fantasies, which are about abusing children. The abuse has to be the point, if it weren't just abstaining from it would be the only choice. It is extremely easy to comprehend that your sexual urges (which can be satisfied in a myriad ways) are monumentally less important than a childs wellbeing. Choosing your urges means that you are doing it because of the abuse, which of course any virtual recreation can not provide.

anon373839 3y ago

I can see some practical difficulties with this. The first one is that CSAM is radioactive and can’t be touched, so only a very limited circle of people could even approach this task. Related to that, the model weights would contain representations of the training data, which if distributed could then be used to get some of the source material back out.