4 ms·

Ways of Seeing by John Berger

64 points by conanxin 3y ago

optimalsolver 3y ago
The video versions are on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0pDE4VX_9Kk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0pDE4VX_9Kk
AltruisticGapHN 3y ago
Wow I didn't know there is a website. Chapter 7 on the "images of an alternative way of life" (publicity) really struck me. I've watched this many times, I'm not sure a written essay can convey the "way of seeing" with the same intensity. It is fascinating to me because , it seems to me, the image generation we have with AI now even further accelerates the production of those "Alternative ways of life". And I think, the logical conclusion is self destruction - I don't see how it can accelerate further. There's gotta be a point where we will come to our senses and value the immediacy of life.
- 082349872349872 3y ago
  > [Oil painting] began with facts, the facts of his life. The paintings embellished the interior in which he actually lived. Napoleon and David would like to have a word: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Napoleon_Crossing_the_Alps#:~:text=In%20reality%20the,and%20foremost%20propaganda https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Napoleon_Crossing_the_Alps#:~:... > image generation ... accelerates the production of those "Alternative ways of life" My hope is that image generation —because people often do not value that which is too cheap to meter— may actually doom publicity glamour, because when anyone can create it, instead of appearing like fae gold (as it does within a faerie circle) it could instead be perceived as the dried leaves it is (canonically discovered only after one returns to the world). Lagniappe (having both cultural reference and a product placement): a mashup of both the "cinderella" and "home improvement" pitches, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XQYNUwYHV1c https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XQYNUwYHV1c
kingnight 3y ago
I wish the bbc would rebroadcast or release it in higher quality than the YouTube uploads from over a decade ago. It’s so great, I’d love to _see_ it in high def.
- 082349872349872 3y ago
  How did the BBC present the tables of statistics in Chapter 1? They were something I had not been expecting to encounter in a work of art criticism!
082349872349872 3y ago
Chapter 5: > (Animals painted like pieces of furniture with four legs.) That insubstantiality articulates what I dislike about the Cowboy Carter album cover: https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/1536/cpsprodpb/98B5/production/_133039093_cowboy-carter-main.jpg.webp https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/1536/cpsprodpb/98B5/production... I suppose they must have been going for Baroque? (that said, at least it's a horse; usually these days people use automobiles for the same sort of flex, eg: https://media.cnn.com/api/v1/images/stellar/prod/160418084520-02-queen-land-rover-0418-restricted.jpg https://media.cnn.com/api/v1/images/stellar/prod/16041808452... Note that when Jesus rides a donkey into Jerusalem, most modern commentary claims it is an act of humility. However, people rode donkeys long before they rode horses, so in that time, as an allusion to the past, it could also have been taken as pretension to royalty; compare the english royal use of horsedrawn carriages instead of fancy cars for state events).
caycep 3y ago
I think this was also published in a book. which I think might be in the giant pile of "to read" books on my shelf (realizing my modern job is terrible for book reading)
- GlibMonkeyDeath 3y ago
  If this is the book I have, the image reproductions (very grainy, small, black-and-white) are so bad that the book is nearly worthless. It's a book that is supposed to be about interpreting images - and the image reproductions are horrendous. It's a shame because otherwise it is thought-provoking. The images are better on this website (at least they are mostly in color), but still pretty low resolution.
aireo 3y ago
I first read this when I was an English Lit undergraduate. Theory was my favourite topic -- Derrida, Foucault, Althusser, etc -- but this book, in particular, always stood out to me. It's the writing style. The words and sentences are simple, especially compared to other theory books, and it was captivating to read as a result. (It doesn't hurt that the topic itself is highly interesting and relatable.) IMO, an example of excellent writing.
beaugunderson 3y ago
just bought a copy of this at a bookstore in marfa, tx... the proprietor saw me looking it and said something like "instead of going to art school you could just read all of john berger's books", which, while hyperbole, was still an effective pitch

64 points by conanxin 3y ago

The video versions are on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0pDE4VX_9Kk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0pDE4VX_9Kk

AltruisticGapHN 3y ago

Wow I didn't know there is a website. Chapter 7 on the "images of an alternative way of life" (publicity) really struck me. I've watched this many times, I'm not sure a written essay can convey the "way of seeing" with the same intensity. It is fascinating to me because , it seems to me, the image generation we have with AI now even further accelerates the production of those "Alternative ways of life". And I think, the logical conclusion is self destruction - I don't see how it can accelerate further. There's gotta be a point where we will come to our senses and value the immediacy of life.

082349872349872 3y ago
> [Oil painting] began with facts, the facts of his life. The paintings embellished the interior in which he actually lived. Napoleon and David would like to have a word: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Napoleon_Crossing_the_Alps#:~:text=In%20reality%20the,and%20foremost%20propaganda https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Napoleon_Crossing_the_Alps#:~:... > image generation ... accelerates the production of those "Alternative ways of life" My hope is that image generation —because people often do not value that which is too cheap to meter— may actually doom publicity glamour, because when anyone can create it, instead of appearing like fae gold (as it does within a faerie circle) it could instead be perceived as the dried leaves it is (canonically discovered only after one returns to the world). Lagniappe (having both cultural reference and a product placement): a mashup of both the "cinderella" and "home improvement" pitches, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XQYNUwYHV1c https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XQYNUwYHV1c

kingnight 3y ago

I wish the bbc would rebroadcast or release it in higher quality than the YouTube uploads from over a decade ago. It’s so great, I’d love to _see_ it in high def.

082349872349872 3y ago
How did the BBC present the tables of statistics in Chapter 1? They were something I had not been expecting to encounter in a work of art criticism!

082349872349872 3y ago

Chapter 5: > (Animals painted like pieces of furniture with four legs.) That insubstantiality articulates what I dislike about the Cowboy Carter album cover: https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/1536/cpsprodpb/98B5/production/_133039093_cowboy-carter-main.jpg.webp https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/1536/cpsprodpb/98B5/production... I suppose they must have been going for Baroque? (that said, at least it's a horse; usually these days people use automobiles for the same sort of flex, eg: https://media.cnn.com/api/v1/images/stellar/prod/160418084520-02-queen-land-rover-0418-restricted.jpg https://media.cnn.com/api/v1/images/stellar/prod/16041808452... Note that when Jesus rides a donkey into Jerusalem, most modern commentary claims it is an act of humility. However, people rode donkeys long before they rode horses, so in that time, as an allusion to the past, it could also have been taken as pretension to royalty; compare the english royal use of horsedrawn carriages instead of fancy cars for state events).

caycep 3y ago

I think this was also published in a book. which I think might be in the giant pile of "to read" books on my shelf (realizing my modern job is terrible for book reading)

GlibMonkeyDeath 3y ago
If this is the book I have, the image reproductions (very grainy, small, black-and-white) are so bad that the book is nearly worthless. It's a book that is supposed to be about interpreting images - and the image reproductions are horrendous. It's a shame because otherwise it is thought-provoking. The images are better on this website (at least they are mostly in color), but still pretty low resolution.

aireo 3y ago

I first read this when I was an English Lit undergraduate. Theory was my favourite topic -- Derrida, Foucault, Althusser, etc -- but this book, in particular, always stood out to me. It's the writing style. The words and sentences are simple, especially compared to other theory books, and it was captivating to read as a result. (It doesn't hurt that the topic itself is highly interesting and relatable.) IMO, an example of excellent writing.

beaugunderson 3y ago

just bought a copy of this at a bookstore in marfa, tx... the proprietor saw me looking it and said something like "instead of going to art school you could just read all of john berger's books", which, while hyperbole, was still an effective pitch