5 ms·

This is one of the reasons I loved Netflix. Each year they would say "to get new people in the door with your level experience, we had to offer them $XXX. The

This is one of the reasons I loved Netflix. Each year they would say "to get new people in the door with your level experience, we had to offer them $XXX. Therefore we are raising you to $XXX." Some years I got 25%+ raises. Netflix understood this like no one else.

bluSCALE4 3y ago
Makes me happy that at least someone out there is experiencing pay fairness.
testfoobar 3y ago
Would the 25% raise be composed primarily of salary or stock?
- ivalm 3y ago
  Netflix is just salary
- mmxmb 3y ago
  Netflix doesn’t do stock comp.
  - i_am_a_peasant 3y ago
    apparently for some people they do lol
    - jpalawaga 3y ago
      historically they've had an options program that you could optionally participate in, with your salary. the rumblings i've heard seems to imply they'll be rolling out an RSU system in the future as they continue to destroy the unique corporate culture they had.
      - i_am_a_peasant 3y ago
        Had that at Wind River years ago. They'd both give you RSUs as a kind of bonus but you could also invest a part of your salary in RSUs. Don't know if they're still a thing.
- Jcampuzano2 3y ago
  Pretty sure I've read and heard everywhere that Netflix is a rarity in that the vast majority of your total comp is directly in salary. So it likely resulted in primarily salary increases.
- jedberg 3y ago
  Cash. Netflix lets you basically turn a dial on the ratio of cash to stock, but it starts with a single cash number.
theshrike79 3y ago
Companies should understand when their business hangs on people, you need to keep the people happy. Hiring people off the street for more money than people with 20+ years of experience isn't a good way to keep experienced workers employed.
- onlyrealcuzzo 3y ago
  The problem is - historically it hasn't bitten companies badly enough that they stop doing it. On aggregate, you can get away with massively underpaying your top talent and overpaying new hires - most of which aren't good and will go to other companies before they're even moderately productive. I question why they're so obsessed with hiring so many new people to do basically nothing. That's the reason they have to over pay for them: The sheer amount that they're trying to hire. Perhaps it's inevitable that you have to hire 100 people to find 5 or so people that'll be good and stick around for a while that you can underpay in the future. I suspect there's got to be a better way.
  - kelnos 3y ago
    > The problem is - historically it hasn't bitten companies badly enough that they stop doing it. The reason for that is the culture around keeping compensation secret. Most people (in the US at least) believe it's impolite to talk about salary directly. I do wonder how much of this taboo has been cultivated by corporations that benefit from workers feeling like they shouldn't talk about salary. On top of that, some companies tell their employees they are not allowed to talk about salary. That practice is illegal, but some companies still do it.
    - Buttons840 3y ago
      To be clear, Federal law is very explicit that you have the right to discuss and disclose your salary.
      - wakawaka28 3y ago
        You have the right to do it, but your coworkers might become bitter and envious if you make more than them. You have to judge how mature your coworkers are and whether it would cause trouble for you if they made a complaint to your manager. For example, if you are on a team of like 5 people, it could be impossible for them to maintain your anonymity as they say "Why am I making less than others?" You might also imagine that if your coworkers don't get the raise, they will not be as motivated to work, and may cause problems for you that way. I've been on both ends of this, usually the lower end, and I can say first hand it is hard to not take getting paid less as a personal affront to your dignity. And every time I was underpaid I not only didn't get a big raise, but I took much longer than expected to find another job. If you are underpaid, your best option is to leave in most cases. Don't underestimate how long you have to tolerate the low pay while you try to leave.
zerr 3y ago
That's better than being forced to do interviews at other FANGs, getting offers and only then getting raises matching those offers. I heard Netflix suggested this as well, for determining the current "market rate". Offloading the market research to engineers basically.
- fnordpiglet 3y ago
  In finance this is called price discovery. In the labor market it’s called waiting until someone is one foot out the door. It’s much more expensive to correct the situation once someone has already decided to leave.
  - olivierduval 3y ago
    But corp logic: it's cheaper to raise ONE top performer when he wants to go than to raise EVERYBODY (even those not interested in leaving) to match market
    - bb88 3y ago
      No argument, but if I'm interviewing and get a better offer, I'm probably gonna leave. Further in some corporations, interviewing for other positions is a bright shiny red flag for that person to be let go or fired. Even if they accept the counter offer.
      - LoganDark 3y ago
        > if I'm interviewing and get a better offer, I'm probably gonna leave. If I could get the same amount of money from my current job I would probably stay unless I'm sure I would love the other job more. Because when money is a constant, it's either do I want to keep doing what I'm good at, or jump into something possibly different (and riskier).
- jedberg 3y ago
  Yup! We were encouraged to take interviews at other companies for multiple reasons. One was to report back the offer as data for the HR team. They used that both in level setting new offers as well as making sure you got an appropriate raise. It was also because Netflix understood that if you found a better job, it was better for both you and Netflix to leave and take that job, because it meant that you weren't truly happy at Netflix and may not be doing your best work. It was truly an enlightened way to think about talent, and I've never seen anything as good since.
gardenhedge 3y ago
That's awesome! It comes down to mindset by the people running the company
guiomie 3y ago
Would they also do the opposite now that the tech labor market is going sour? " We got 1000 qualified applicants and a bunch accepted our low ball offers, your salary is reduced by 25% "
- jedberg 3y ago
  As far as I saw they never lowered salaries. They would say "the market is down this year, so you won't get a rise, but you're still at the top of your market". You could always go out an interview and come back with new data if you got a better offer.
_pi 3y ago
Yeah. just don't go on paternity/maternity leave.
- jedberg 3y ago
  Netflix has a one year paternity/maternity leave policy, and some people take the full one year.
  - pacifika 3y ago
    Paid / unpaid?
    - jedberg 3y ago
      Paid. Looks like they changed it to "take whatever time you need", and most people are taking 4-8 months. https://jobs.netflix.com/work-life-philosophy https://jobs.netflix.com/work-life-philosophy
  - _pi 3y ago
    Sure. Did they stop punishing people with their "actual meritocracy" metrics for taking it?
logtempo 3y ago
In other words, they're trying to keep the variance of the distribution of salaries constant over time. Limiting economic disparity have always been beneficial to the group I believe (I don't have data for that). In the same company, the top should not be paid x% more than the lower salary. In the same country, the maximum wage should not exceed x% more than the minimum wage (after taxes).

bluSCALE4 3y ago

Makes me happy that at least someone out there is experiencing pay fairness.

testfoobar 3y ago

Would the 25% raise be composed primarily of salary or stock?

ivalm 3y ago
Netflix is just salary
mmxmb 3y ago
Netflix doesn’t do stock comp.
- i_am_a_peasant 3y ago
  apparently for some people they do lol
  - jpalawaga 3y ago
    historically they've had an options program that you could optionally participate in, with your salary. the rumblings i've heard seems to imply they'll be rolling out an RSU system in the future as they continue to destroy the unique corporate culture they had.
    - i_am_a_peasant 3y ago
      Had that at Wind River years ago. They'd both give you RSUs as a kind of bonus but you could also invest a part of your salary in RSUs. Don't know if they're still a thing.
Jcampuzano2 3y ago
Pretty sure I've read and heard everywhere that Netflix is a rarity in that the vast majority of your total comp is directly in salary. So it likely resulted in primarily salary increases.
jedberg 3y ago
Cash. Netflix lets you basically turn a dial on the ratio of cash to stock, but it starts with a single cash number.

theshrike79 3y ago

Companies should understand when their business hangs on people, you need to keep the people happy. Hiring people off the street for more money than people with 20+ years of experience isn't a good way to keep experienced workers employed.

onlyrealcuzzo 3y ago
The problem is - historically it hasn't bitten companies badly enough that they stop doing it. On aggregate, you can get away with massively underpaying your top talent and overpaying new hires - most of which aren't good and will go to other companies before they're even moderately productive. I question why they're so obsessed with hiring so many new people to do basically nothing. That's the reason they have to over pay for them: The sheer amount that they're trying to hire. Perhaps it's inevitable that you have to hire 100 people to find 5 or so people that'll be good and stick around for a while that you can underpay in the future. I suspect there's got to be a better way.
- kelnos 3y ago
  > The problem is - historically it hasn't bitten companies badly enough that they stop doing it. The reason for that is the culture around keeping compensation secret. Most people (in the US at least) believe it's impolite to talk about salary directly. I do wonder how much of this taboo has been cultivated by corporations that benefit from workers feeling like they shouldn't talk about salary. On top of that, some companies tell their employees they are not allowed to talk about salary. That practice is illegal, but some companies still do it.
  - Buttons840 3y ago
    To be clear, Federal law is very explicit that you have the right to discuss and disclose your salary.
    - wakawaka28 3y ago
      You have the right to do it, but your coworkers might become bitter and envious if you make more than them. You have to judge how mature your coworkers are and whether it would cause trouble for you if they made a complaint to your manager. For example, if you are on a team of like 5 people, it could be impossible for them to maintain your anonymity as they say "Why am I making less than others?" You might also imagine that if your coworkers don't get the raise, they will not be as motivated to work, and may cause problems for you that way. I've been on both ends of this, usually the lower end, and I can say first hand it is hard to not take getting paid less as a personal affront to your dignity. And every time I was underpaid I not only didn't get a big raise, but I took much longer than expected to find another job. If you are underpaid, your best option is to leave in most cases. Don't underestimate how long you have to tolerate the low pay while you try to leave.

zerr 3y ago

That's better than being forced to do interviews at other FANGs, getting offers and only then getting raises matching those offers. I heard Netflix suggested this as well, for determining the current "market rate". Offloading the market research to engineers basically.

fnordpiglet 3y ago
In finance this is called price discovery. In the labor market it’s called waiting until someone is one foot out the door. It’s much more expensive to correct the situation once someone has already decided to leave.
- olivierduval 3y ago
  But corp logic: it's cheaper to raise ONE top performer when he wants to go than to raise EVERYBODY (even those not interested in leaving) to match market
  - bb88 3y ago
    No argument, but if I'm interviewing and get a better offer, I'm probably gonna leave. Further in some corporations, interviewing for other positions is a bright shiny red flag for that person to be let go or fired. Even if they accept the counter offer.
    - LoganDark 3y ago
      > if I'm interviewing and get a better offer, I'm probably gonna leave. If I could get the same amount of money from my current job I would probably stay unless I'm sure I would love the other job more. Because when money is a constant, it's either do I want to keep doing what I'm good at, or jump into something possibly different (and riskier).
jedberg 3y ago
Yup! We were encouraged to take interviews at other companies for multiple reasons. One was to report back the offer as data for the HR team. They used that both in level setting new offers as well as making sure you got an appropriate raise. It was also because Netflix understood that if you found a better job, it was better for both you and Netflix to leave and take that job, because it meant that you weren't truly happy at Netflix and may not be doing your best work. It was truly an enlightened way to think about talent, and I've never seen anything as good since.

gardenhedge 3y ago

That's awesome! It comes down to mindset by the people running the company

guiomie 3y ago

Would they also do the opposite now that the tech labor market is going sour? " We got 1000 qualified applicants and a bunch accepted our low ball offers, your salary is reduced by 25% "

jedberg 3y ago
As far as I saw they never lowered salaries. They would say "the market is down this year, so you won't get a rise, but you're still at the top of your market". You could always go out an interview and come back with new data if you got a better offer.

_pi 3y ago

Yeah. just don't go on paternity/maternity leave.

jedberg 3y ago
Netflix has a one year paternity/maternity leave policy, and some people take the full one year.
- pacifika 3y ago
  Paid / unpaid?
  - jedberg 3y ago
    Paid. Looks like they changed it to "take whatever time you need", and most people are taking 4-8 months. https://jobs.netflix.com/work-life-philosophy https://jobs.netflix.com/work-life-philosophy
- _pi 3y ago
  Sure. Did they stop punishing people with their "actual meritocracy" metrics for taking it?

logtempo 3y ago

In other words, they're trying to keep the variance of the distribution of salaries constant over time. Limiting economic disparity have always been beneficial to the group I believe (I don't have data for that). In the same company, the top should not be paid x% more than the lower salary. In the same country, the maximum wage should not exceed x% more than the minimum wage (after taxes).