4 ms·

> Chronic absence is typically defined as missing at least 10 percent of the school year, or about 18 days, for any reason. I don't think having a cold or two

> Chronic absence is typically defined as missing at least 10 percent of the school year, or about 18 days, for any reason. I don't think having a cold or two is going to put many people in this category. Decades ago when I was in public school, the kids who were chronically absent like this were the ones who clearly had some behavioral issues or problems at home. The linked study also demonstrates that the rates are strongly associated with socioeconomic factors. I think the real issue here is that a subset of people simply have fewer fucks to give about school, and that has been accelerated by the distance and space that COVID created between students/parents and school.

aaomidi 3y ago
Oh hey I was chronically absent under this definition. I am glad my parents allowed me to be, because school was really, really damaging to my mental health when I ended up needing to be chronically absent.
- kube-system 3y ago
  Hope you got the help you needed -- but to my point, it doesn't sound like you simply had a cold?
  - aaomidi 3y ago
    Nope. Not a cold, although that was the excuse :). And yeah, I simply just needed to be away from school. I guess I’m more so making a point that during the pandemic there was also probably a ton of students who realized they can learn without school, and it might even be better for them.
nytesky 3y ago
My daughter has missed 10 days of school because of a lingering cough even when not actively sick. She doesn’t sleep well and teachers now consider her disruptive if coughing in class. I think th expectation is no longer to go to school with sniffles and a box of tissues.
- paulryanrogers 3y ago
  My daughter had a cough for 4 weeks. She saw the doc twice over that time period. They said it was viral and for her to get plenty of rest and fluids. Only had a fever for two of those days. If we'd kept her home every day she coughed the she'd have missed 25+ days.
christkv 3y ago
This winter has been brutal with kids. One bug after another.
- kube-system 3y ago
  If it were simply that, wouldn't we see a similar effect across socioeconomic backgrounds? Colds don't discriminate.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - maxsilver 3y ago
    We are seeing a similar effect across all socioeconomic backgrounds. Or at least locally here, Hospital admissions for Winter 2023-2024 almost hit another all time high (nearly hitting the same numbers as peak COVID) - https://www.mlive.com/public-interest/2024/01/covid-on-the-rise-as-michigan-hospital-admissions-near-2-year-high.html https://www.mlive.com/public-interest/2024/01/covid-on-the-r...
  - nostrademons 3y ago
    I think we are seeing a similar spike across all backgrounds - other news stories in this press cycle have highlighted that one thing unusual about this surge in absences is that it's affecting affluent and poor districts alike, and that well-off kids are missing school too. Anecdotally that seems to be the case in my kids' school district (although one complicating factor is that a lot of kids have family back in India or China and go back for long absences at winter break), and the culprit is generally illnesses, which have been extremely rough the past 2 winters.
  - elboru 3y ago
    The local hospitals in my community have been full of hospitalized kids with different respiratory issues this winter. My doctor commented that this is a post-pandemic effect.
  - throwaway11460 3y ago
camdenreslink 3y ago
Most schools have a policy of not returning to school until 24 hours after the last measurable fever. One cold can burn 3 days easily that way. Four colds (easy in elementary school) during the season and you’re already up to 12 days. Throw in a stomach bug, and maybe some appointments and now you’re getting really close to the limit.
ch4s3 3y ago
I was chronically absent in high-school and it certainly wasn't because I was sick. School wasn't very engaging and I maintained good grades while barely being there. I can definitely see how COVID shutdowns unmoored some families from school and the return process made it a generally less compelling experience. If you aren't learning, socializing all happens on your phone, and you'll graduate regardless, then why go?
Auracle 3y ago
My colds typically last 3 weeks with about 7-10 days of them being full-on. I also have an (obviously) terrible immune system and get quite a few per year. Obviously it’s not doable to stay away from school that much, and I only did when I had a fever or was puking. That said, there were probably some years I at least got close to that 18 days. I would think the few years I went on a vacation I definitely went over it.
detourdog 3y ago
I was in high school 4 decades ago was chronically absent. I absolutely hated school and it really only provided unmanageable stress for me. I was entirely focused on getting to college. I was able to attend an art school which seemed to have a high population of un-teachable students. I loved college and was able to learn. I didn't get great grades but I was participating in the education process.
ryandrake 3y ago
> I think the real issue here is that a subset of people simply have fewer fucks to give about school, and that has been accelerated by the distance and space that COVID created between students/parents and school. Some parents are even giving negative-fucks about school, in other words being actively against public education, teachers, and so on. I know of Facebook groups where parents share tips on how to maximize the number of absences without triggering various flags. And, a surprising number of my wife's friends from church have opted for homeschooling, so they can teach their kids from the Bible and skip all that science and math "liberal indoctrination". It's scary. I can't believe how much of this is creeping into even HN too, a group of presumably above-average educated techies. Just look at the comments in this article dunking on the school system! Education is, for most people, their only shot at achieving the ever-shrinking middle class.
- vundercind 3y ago
  > And, a surprising number of my wife's friends from church have opted for homeschooling, so they can teach their kids from the Bible and skip all that science and math "liberal indoctrination". Thank god (ha, ha) for immigrants I guess. The Internet’s been a disaster for civil society.
- Dig1t 3y ago
  I recommend approaching people who want to homeschool with an open mind and a little empathy. They are not bible thumpers who want to eschew science, many of them are just normal people who do not like the bias and worldview that is being applied to education.
  - ryandrake 3y ago
    Obviously, not all of them are homeschooling for religious separatism reasons, and whenever there's a homeschooling article on HN, you'll see all the success stories post in defense of the practice. For every one of those successful individuals, how many are not so successful? We may never know, because most states don't even measure outcomes and/or make it illegal to even check on the progress of homeschooled children.
  - 3y ago
elboru 3y ago
> I don't think having a cold or two is going to put many people in this category. Have you been around kids post COVID? Winters after the pandemic have been a nightmare for many parents. My nephews have basically been "sick" the whole winter (getting sick, staying home, recovering, going back to school, getting a new virus, repeat).
- seneca 3y ago
  I have heard this from so many people, all over the country. I've heard many parents saying they're getting repeatedly sick as their kids bring diseases home. Has anyone seen any actual research into why this is? It seems pretty serious.
  - vundercind 3y ago
    We didn’t have so much as a sniffle in our house for 2+ years. Masking, distancing, and not going to restaurants—we just did not get sick. Even after the kids went back to school—we had them in a school with heavy-duty air filters in every room and high masking compliance, at the time. Now we’re sick constantly, it seems. It’s so much worse than before. I think our immune systems are doing some catching up. [edit] for the timing, we started getting sick a bunch right around the time masking dropped off to near-zero everywhere around us.
    - seanmcdirmid 3y ago
      It totally makes sense though right? While we had zero tolerance, our immune systems didn't get any work out, and vaccines can only take you so far and doesn't cover many nasty RSVs anyways. Now we are back, and our immune systems are simply not in shape.
      - elboru 3y ago
        I’ve also heard that because of lockdown only the stronger variants of different viruses made it. So we’re dealing with them now. But I haven’t heard of any study about it yet.
pokerface_86 3y ago
lol, i was chronically absent for an entire mathematics degree and still finished with a 3.5 gpa. chronic absence doesn’t mean shit imo.
Fire-Dragon-DoL 3y ago
I mean, my children had fever 3 weeks this year and we have been responsible and avoided sending them in school when they have very bad cough and runny nose (3 and 5). We are already at 15 days of absence this year because of that. Children are always sick.

aaomidi 3y ago

Oh hey I was chronically absent under this definition. I am glad my parents allowed me to be, because school was really, really damaging to my mental health when I ended up needing to be chronically absent.

kube-system 3y ago
Hope you got the help you needed -- but to my point, it doesn't sound like you simply had a cold?
- aaomidi 3y ago
  Nope. Not a cold, although that was the excuse :). And yeah, I simply just needed to be away from school. I guess I’m more so making a point that during the pandemic there was also probably a ton of students who realized they can learn without school, and it might even be better for them.

nytesky 3y ago

My daughter has missed 10 days of school because of a lingering cough even when not actively sick. She doesn’t sleep well and teachers now consider her disruptive if coughing in class. I think th expectation is no longer to go to school with sniffles and a box of tissues.

paulryanrogers 3y ago
My daughter had a cough for 4 weeks. She saw the doc twice over that time period. They said it was viral and for her to get plenty of rest and fluids. Only had a fever for two of those days. If we'd kept her home every day she coughed the she'd have missed 25+ days.

christkv 3y ago

This winter has been brutal with kids. One bug after another.

kube-system 3y ago
If it were simply that, wouldn't we see a similar effect across socioeconomic backgrounds? Colds don't discriminate.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- maxsilver 3y ago
  We are seeing a similar effect across all socioeconomic backgrounds. Or at least locally here, Hospital admissions for Winter 2023-2024 almost hit another all time high (nearly hitting the same numbers as peak COVID) - https://www.mlive.com/public-interest/2024/01/covid-on-the-rise-as-michigan-hospital-admissions-near-2-year-high.html https://www.mlive.com/public-interest/2024/01/covid-on-the-r...
- nostrademons 3y ago
  I think we are seeing a similar spike across all backgrounds - other news stories in this press cycle have highlighted that one thing unusual about this surge in absences is that it's affecting affluent and poor districts alike, and that well-off kids are missing school too. Anecdotally that seems to be the case in my kids' school district (although one complicating factor is that a lot of kids have family back in India or China and go back for long absences at winter break), and the culprit is generally illnesses, which have been extremely rough the past 2 winters.
- elboru 3y ago
  The local hospitals in my community have been full of hospitalized kids with different respiratory issues this winter. My doctor commented that this is a post-pandemic effect.
- throwaway11460 3y ago

camdenreslink 3y ago

Most schools have a policy of not returning to school until 24 hours after the last measurable fever. One cold can burn 3 days easily that way. Four colds (easy in elementary school) during the season and you’re already up to 12 days. Throw in a stomach bug, and maybe some appointments and now you’re getting really close to the limit.

ch4s3 3y ago

I was chronically absent in high-school and it certainly wasn't because I was sick. School wasn't very engaging and I maintained good grades while barely being there. I can definitely see how COVID shutdowns unmoored some families from school and the return process made it a generally less compelling experience. If you aren't learning, socializing all happens on your phone, and you'll graduate regardless, then why go?

Auracle 3y ago

My colds typically last 3 weeks with about 7-10 days of them being full-on. I also have an (obviously) terrible immune system and get quite a few per year. Obviously it’s not doable to stay away from school that much, and I only did when I had a fever or was puking. That said, there were probably some years I at least got close to that 18 days. I would think the few years I went on a vacation I definitely went over it.

detourdog 3y ago

I was in high school 4 decades ago was chronically absent. I absolutely hated school and it really only provided unmanageable stress for me. I was entirely focused on getting to college. I was able to attend an art school which seemed to have a high population of un-teachable students. I loved college and was able to learn. I didn't get great grades but I was participating in the education process.

ryandrake 3y ago

> I think the real issue here is that a subset of people simply have fewer fucks to give about school, and that has been accelerated by the distance and space that COVID created between students/parents and school. Some parents are even giving negative-fucks about school, in other words being actively against public education, teachers, and so on. I know of Facebook groups where parents share tips on how to maximize the number of absences without triggering various flags. And, a surprising number of my wife's friends from church have opted for homeschooling, so they can teach their kids from the Bible and skip all that science and math "liberal indoctrination". It's scary. I can't believe how much of this is creeping into even HN too, a group of presumably above-average educated techies. Just look at the comments in this article dunking on the school system! Education is, for most people, their only shot at achieving the ever-shrinking middle class.

vundercind 3y ago
> And, a surprising number of my wife's friends from church have opted for homeschooling, so they can teach their kids from the Bible and skip all that science and math "liberal indoctrination". Thank god (ha, ha) for immigrants I guess. The Internet’s been a disaster for civil society.
Dig1t 3y ago
I recommend approaching people who want to homeschool with an open mind and a little empathy. They are not bible thumpers who want to eschew science, many of them are just normal people who do not like the bias and worldview that is being applied to education.
- ryandrake 3y ago
  Obviously, not all of them are homeschooling for religious separatism reasons, and whenever there's a homeschooling article on HN, you'll see all the success stories post in defense of the practice. For every one of those successful individuals, how many are not so successful? We may never know, because most states don't even measure outcomes and/or make it illegal to even check on the progress of homeschooled children.
- 3y ago

elboru 3y ago

> I don't think having a cold or two is going to put many people in this category. Have you been around kids post COVID? Winters after the pandemic have been a nightmare for many parents. My nephews have basically been "sick" the whole winter (getting sick, staying home, recovering, going back to school, getting a new virus, repeat).

seneca 3y ago
I have heard this from so many people, all over the country. I've heard many parents saying they're getting repeatedly sick as their kids bring diseases home. Has anyone seen any actual research into why this is? It seems pretty serious.
- vundercind 3y ago
  We didn’t have so much as a sniffle in our house for 2+ years. Masking, distancing, and not going to restaurants—we just did not get sick. Even after the kids went back to school—we had them in a school with heavy-duty air filters in every room and high masking compliance, at the time. Now we’re sick constantly, it seems. It’s so much worse than before. I think our immune systems are doing some catching up. [edit] for the timing, we started getting sick a bunch right around the time masking dropped off to near-zero everywhere around us.
  - seanmcdirmid 3y ago
    It totally makes sense though right? While we had zero tolerance, our immune systems didn't get any work out, and vaccines can only take you so far and doesn't cover many nasty RSVs anyways. Now we are back, and our immune systems are simply not in shape.
    - elboru 3y ago
      I’ve also heard that because of lockdown only the stronger variants of different viruses made it. So we’re dealing with them now. But I haven’t heard of any study about it yet.

pokerface_86 3y ago

lol, i was chronically absent for an entire mathematics degree and still finished with a 3.5 gpa. chronic absence doesn’t mean shit imo.

Fire-Dragon-DoL 3y ago

I mean, my children had fever 3 weeks this year and we have been responsible and avoided sending them in school when they have very bad cough and runny nose (3 and 5). We are already at 15 days of absence this year because of that. Children are always sick.