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The article highlights that many parents whose children are absent are treating the posted assignments/homework as the primary teaching tool, so cutting that ba

by 542458 3y ago

The article highlights that many parents whose children are absent are treating the posted assignments/homework as the primary teaching tool, so cutting that back hurts absent kids (I also understand that homework’s has been massively scaled back already in most places). Shorter days unfortunately interferes with school’s role as state-provided daycare for working parents. Later days is a solid idea, and I believe research shows it improves student performance at the highschool level, although if I understand correctly this is largely a scheduling/budget issue with how busses are staggered today.

JumpCrisscross 3y ago
> if I understand correctly this is largely a scheduling/budget issue with how busses are staggered today My California public school district had no busses. I still remember miserably making 7AM classes.
- alephnerd 3y ago
  They still don't, even when I was a kid and even today.
alephnerd 3y ago
My mom's a teacher in a decent school district in California, and later school times didn't have a significant effect on post-pandemic absences in her experiences (for the students who did come in, it did have a positive effect on their performance though). The brutal truth is a subset of parents just don't care too much about education. It doesn't matter if it's an affluent or a working class district - there will always be a subset of parents that are either unable to (fairly common among impoverished parents sadly) or uninterested to (fairly uncommon among more affluent parents sadly) become much more involved parents Basically, teachers assume parents will intervene in their students lives to give structure. Parents in the other hand assume teachers will intervene to give their children structure in their lives. And neither side will budge. Some autonomy for kids is critical, but there also needs to be some amount of structure as well. You can't be 100% disciplinarian nor 100% free roaming. A happy balance is needed, and sadly, a handful of bad apples among both teachers and parents have deteriorated that relationship among these critical caregivers.
- HWR_14 3y ago
  Did schools really start later post-pandemic? Your entire first paragraph confuses me because I'm not aware of any shift in school start times.
  - alephnerd 3y ago
    I'm speaking only about California and specifically, the school district my mom works for. As of 2022, Middle schools can start at 8am at the earliest, and number of school districts transitioned to a 8.30-9am start time. Some affluent school districts already did this transition in the late 2000s and early 2010s. The US has roughy 13k school districts. Each one has it's own different sets of rules, regulations, and local political culture, and aside from limited State and Federal DoE regulation, implement their policies based on local political constraints due to the School Board and PTA. Some School Boards and PTAs are apolitical in nature. Others are hyper-political and used as a stepping stone to enter local and state level politics (eg. Mayor, City Council, State Assembly, Congress) as donors won't donate without a proven electoral track record. Most younger (< 60yrs) Congressmembers started their political careers this way.
- pastage 3y ago
  I only have anecdata but the three kids I know of all have some kind of diagnosis making it hard for them in school. From my recollection it was more or less the same in my days just that the kids went to school and wasted their time. Some kids are definitely harder to help than others. EDIT: This is for Sweden where we are talking about the same issue. But I do not think we have the same numbers here.
  - alephnerd 3y ago
    > some kind of diagnosis making it hard for them in school This is a valid reason to be absent, and school administrators, teachers, and statistics take that into account. My comment was aimed specifically at students who don't have valid physical or mental issues. My mom's school district does not enforce suspensions for chronic absenteeism due to a subset of very affluent and litigious parents. > This is for Sweden Makes sense. There is no point comparing the Swedish or "American" system, as there are 13,187 different American systems that all have different norms and rules besides a handful stipulated by the DoE. Even inter-US comparisons don't make sense for that reason.
mhitza 3y ago
> Shorter days unfortunately interferes with school’s role as state-provided daycare for working parents. If that would be the intent, arcade cabinets, open play fields, parks and other social areas within school grounds would be the way to go. My understanding is that the current school "format" was developed during the industrial revolution stage, and its meant to instill into kids that schedule and "lifestyle". Which to many extents hasn't kept up with the way society is evolving. More funding into schools would help (which countries contribute significantly to education anyway?), but also by helping kids develop and learn in what they have an interest. Instead of the currently standardized boring circula. And the sometimes insane hours. On that note, during highschool I had days where I've had up to 7 different classes a day. At least when you go to work, even if it's 8 hours, I (and maybe you as well) got to slack at least 1 hour a day in the morning, or even in the afternoon after the 1 hour lunch break.
- the_sleaze9 3y ago
  As I understand it, USA is one of the highest funded education systems in the world. Funding for education even outpaces USA's um.. robust defense spending. The trick is to look into total funding - beyond federal funding and into state funding. I strongly agree that education in the internet age needs to evolve. I would love to see an education system centered around critical and entrepreneurial thinking, financial literacy, Cognitive Behavioral thinking tools. If you give kids something worthwhile they'll use it and come back for more. https://www.pgpf.org/budget-basics/how-is-k-12-education-funded https://www.pgpf.org/budget-basics/how-is-k-12-education-fun...
  - shrimp_emoji 3y ago
    But it's also one of the biggest countries in the world. It's simply too big and undeveloped for education to work as well as in, say, Switzerland. See also public transportation.
    - newaccount7hhhf 3y ago
      The dude knows that. Can he have possibly used this argument in good faith. No. Can we call it out on HN without the conservatards flagging it. No.

by 542458 3y ago

JumpCrisscross 3y ago

> if I understand correctly this is largely a scheduling/budget issue with how busses are staggered today My California public school district had no busses. I still remember miserably making 7AM classes.

alephnerd 3y ago
They still don't, even when I was a kid and even today.

alephnerd 3y ago

My mom's a teacher in a decent school district in California, and later school times didn't have a significant effect on post-pandemic absences in her experiences (for the students who did come in, it did have a positive effect on their performance though). The brutal truth is a subset of parents just don't care too much about education. It doesn't matter if it's an affluent or a working class district - there will always be a subset of parents that are either unable to (fairly common among impoverished parents sadly) or uninterested to (fairly uncommon among more affluent parents sadly) become much more involved parents Basically, teachers assume parents will intervene in their students lives to give structure. Parents in the other hand assume teachers will intervene to give their children structure in their lives. And neither side will budge. Some autonomy for kids is critical, but there also needs to be some amount of structure as well. You can't be 100% disciplinarian nor 100% free roaming. A happy balance is needed, and sadly, a handful of bad apples among both teachers and parents have deteriorated that relationship among these critical caregivers.

HWR_14 3y ago
Did schools really start later post-pandemic? Your entire first paragraph confuses me because I'm not aware of any shift in school start times.
- alephnerd 3y ago
  I'm speaking only about California and specifically, the school district my mom works for. As of 2022, Middle schools can start at 8am at the earliest, and number of school districts transitioned to a 8.30-9am start time. Some affluent school districts already did this transition in the late 2000s and early 2010s. The US has roughy 13k school districts. Each one has it's own different sets of rules, regulations, and local political culture, and aside from limited State and Federal DoE regulation, implement their policies based on local political constraints due to the School Board and PTA. Some School Boards and PTAs are apolitical in nature. Others are hyper-political and used as a stepping stone to enter local and state level politics (eg. Mayor, City Council, State Assembly, Congress) as donors won't donate without a proven electoral track record. Most younger (< 60yrs) Congressmembers started their political careers this way.
pastage 3y ago
I only have anecdata but the three kids I know of all have some kind of diagnosis making it hard for them in school. From my recollection it was more or less the same in my days just that the kids went to school and wasted their time. Some kids are definitely harder to help than others. EDIT: This is for Sweden where we are talking about the same issue. But I do not think we have the same numbers here.
- alephnerd 3y ago
  > some kind of diagnosis making it hard for them in school This is a valid reason to be absent, and school administrators, teachers, and statistics take that into account. My comment was aimed specifically at students who don't have valid physical or mental issues. My mom's school district does not enforce suspensions for chronic absenteeism due to a subset of very affluent and litigious parents. > This is for Sweden Makes sense. There is no point comparing the Swedish or "American" system, as there are 13,187 different American systems that all have different norms and rules besides a handful stipulated by the DoE. Even inter-US comparisons don't make sense for that reason.

mhitza 3y ago

> Shorter days unfortunately interferes with school’s role as state-provided daycare for working parents. If that would be the intent, arcade cabinets, open play fields, parks and other social areas within school grounds would be the way to go. My understanding is that the current school "format" was developed during the industrial revolution stage, and its meant to instill into kids that schedule and "lifestyle". Which to many extents hasn't kept up with the way society is evolving. More funding into schools would help (which countries contribute significantly to education anyway?), but also by helping kids develop and learn in what they have an interest. Instead of the currently standardized boring circula. And the sometimes insane hours. On that note, during highschool I had days where I've had up to 7 different classes a day. At least when you go to work, even if it's 8 hours, I (and maybe you as well) got to slack at least 1 hour a day in the morning, or even in the afternoon after the 1 hour lunch break.

the_sleaze9 3y ago
As I understand it, USA is one of the highest funded education systems in the world. Funding for education even outpaces USA's um.. robust defense spending. The trick is to look into total funding - beyond federal funding and into state funding. I strongly agree that education in the internet age needs to evolve. I would love to see an education system centered around critical and entrepreneurial thinking, financial literacy, Cognitive Behavioral thinking tools. If you give kids something worthwhile they'll use it and come back for more. https://www.pgpf.org/budget-basics/how-is-k-12-education-funded https://www.pgpf.org/budget-basics/how-is-k-12-education-fun...
- shrimp_emoji 3y ago
  But it's also one of the biggest countries in the world. It's simply too big and undeveloped for education to work as well as in, say, Switzerland. See also public transportation.
  - newaccount7hhhf 3y ago
    The dude knows that. Can he have possibly used this argument in good faith. No. Can we call it out on HN without the conservatards flagging it. No.