4 ms·

I doubt they ever prosecute anyone for counterfeiting a stamp, but if the law only forbid counterfeiting 100 stamps a counterfeiter would do 99 at a time.

justinclift 3y ago
... and it wouldn't be a crime, so what's the issue? :D
coldtea 3y ago
>if the law only forbid counterfeiting 100 stamps a counterfeiter would do 99 at a time. And by the second batch they'd have counterfeited 198, so I fail to see the problem...
- tadfisher 3y ago
  That's how they nab you for structuring.
- boomboomsubban 3y ago
  They hire someone to take each batch from them. So at best, you can only ever prosecute a fall guy, not the skilled counterfeiter. In essence, it's easier to make any counterfeiting illegal, and then not prosecute the person who once prints a picture of a stamp and tapes it to a letter. Trying to make counterfeiting legal in certain situations can be abusable.
  - Joker_vD 3y ago
    And so they get prosecuted for incitement, conspiracy and organized crime. Seriously, as a rule of thumb, none of those extremely simple loopholes you can come up in five seconds of thinking work: there people were before you, and they too could think (even though in case of lawmakers it can sometimes be hard to imagine that they can actually think).
    - boomboomsubban 3y ago
      If selling 99 stamps is legal, I'm not inciting them to crime, I'm selling them the maximum allowable amount that isn't a crime. Similar with conspiracy and organized crime. And yeah, these loopholes don't work because people tried them and now counterfeiting one stamp is illegal. That's my point.
      - Dylan16807 3y ago
        They're hiring a unique person per batch, who gets paid tens of dollars at most, and none of them are willing to say who hired them?
        boomboomsubban 3y ago
        My other post makes my actual point, this is just for fun. Imagine I own a setup that allows me to produce counterfeit stamps. Every fifteen minutes I make 99 and then place them for sale. I sell them, then make 99 new counterfeit stamps and repeat the process. All the risk is offloaded to anyone that buys more than 99 stamps, while the person capable of making them is safe barring some sort of mistake. All their money comes from a legal sale, meaning they're under no obligation to make sure their customer isn't reselling the stamps. So if the middle men gets arrested, the operation can continue immediately. Yes, I can think of issues too, like eventually they stake out your location (though they'd probably need warrants of some sort.) I still think it shows that allowing someone to counterfeit 99 stamps opens loopholes the current law stops. Oh, and from your other post, there are $9 and $30 stamps, meaning this method could counterfeit over $10,000 an hour.
        Dylan16807 3y ago
        So ignoring that you're the only one that suggested smaller batches would be entirely legal: All a prosecutor needs to do is show that you made two batches. If you make a batch every 15 minutes, how do you expect not to get caught? If they catch the middleman delivering two batches, and the middleman snitches, you're done. Or even if they have one batch, but they get offered a reward to say where they got it. Then the authorities only need to get evidence you made 1 more stamp. And don't tell me you're going to sell to a brand new middleman every 15 minutes.
Dylan16807 3y ago
Where did "at a time" come from?
- boomboomsubban 3y ago
  As in "I counterfeit 99 stamps at a time then sell them. That esy I never break the law."
  - boomboomsubban 3y ago
    esy=way.
  - coldtea 3y ago
    Yes, the parents question is meant as "where did the idea that doing 99 'at a time' would somehow bypass a law about >= 100 being illegal comes from?".
    - boomboomsubban 3y ago
      How would having 99 counterfeit stamps violate that law? I think you/the other person (assuming that's what their question meant) took it as "each page printed only has 99, but they're still printing multiple pages per run" while I meant "each run has 99 stamps, then they distribute them." edit or you think the law could be based on how many counterfeit stamps they had made, not possession. Dunno, we're really spending too much time attacking my bullshit hypothetical that was meant to say "make it hard for the law to have a loophole."
      - Dylan16807 3y ago
        > each run has 99 stamps, then they distribute them In that case they're not making much money per batch and they have to only ever get caught once in their life, so it's not much difference to them, it only makes a significant difference to someone that isn't mass-producing stamps. > Dunno, we're really spending too much time attacking my bullshit hypothetical that was meant to say "make it hard for the law to have a loophole." Well I don't think the original had any loopholes, which is why I'm pushing back on your attempt to say that by pointing out a loophole.

justinclift 3y ago

... and it wouldn't be a crime, so what's the issue? :D

coldtea 3y ago

>if the law only forbid counterfeiting 100 stamps a counterfeiter would do 99 at a time. And by the second batch they'd have counterfeited 198, so I fail to see the problem...

tadfisher 3y ago
That's how they nab you for structuring.
boomboomsubban 3y ago
They hire someone to take each batch from them. So at best, you can only ever prosecute a fall guy, not the skilled counterfeiter. In essence, it's easier to make any counterfeiting illegal, and then not prosecute the person who once prints a picture of a stamp and tapes it to a letter. Trying to make counterfeiting legal in certain situations can be abusable.
- Joker_vD 3y ago
  And so they get prosecuted for incitement, conspiracy and organized crime. Seriously, as a rule of thumb, none of those extremely simple loopholes you can come up in five seconds of thinking work: there people were before you, and they too could think (even though in case of lawmakers it can sometimes be hard to imagine that they can actually think).
  - boomboomsubban 3y ago
    If selling 99 stamps is legal, I'm not inciting them to crime, I'm selling them the maximum allowable amount that isn't a crime. Similar with conspiracy and organized crime. And yeah, these loopholes don't work because people tried them and now counterfeiting one stamp is illegal. That's my point.
    - Dylan16807 3y ago
      They're hiring a unique person per batch, who gets paid tens of dollars at most, and none of them are willing to say who hired them?
      - boomboomsubban 3y ago
        My other post makes my actual point, this is just for fun. Imagine I own a setup that allows me to produce counterfeit stamps. Every fifteen minutes I make 99 and then place them for sale. I sell them, then make 99 new counterfeit stamps and repeat the process. All the risk is offloaded to anyone that buys more than 99 stamps, while the person capable of making them is safe barring some sort of mistake. All their money comes from a legal sale, meaning they're under no obligation to make sure their customer isn't reselling the stamps. So if the middle men gets arrested, the operation can continue immediately. Yes, I can think of issues too, like eventually they stake out your location (though they'd probably need warrants of some sort.) I still think it shows that allowing someone to counterfeit 99 stamps opens loopholes the current law stops. Oh, and from your other post, there are $9 and $30 stamps, meaning this method could counterfeit over $10,000 an hour.
        Dylan16807 3y ago
        So ignoring that you're the only one that suggested smaller batches would be entirely legal: All a prosecutor needs to do is show that you made two batches. If you make a batch every 15 minutes, how do you expect not to get caught? If they catch the middleman delivering two batches, and the middleman snitches, you're done. Or even if they have one batch, but they get offered a reward to say where they got it. Then the authorities only need to get evidence you made 1 more stamp. And don't tell me you're going to sell to a brand new middleman every 15 minutes.

Dylan16807 3y ago

Where did "at a time" come from?

boomboomsubban 3y ago
As in "I counterfeit 99 stamps at a time then sell them. That esy I never break the law."
- boomboomsubban 3y ago
  esy=way.
- coldtea 3y ago
  Yes, the parents question is meant as "where did the idea that doing 99 'at a time' would somehow bypass a law about >= 100 being illegal comes from?".
  - boomboomsubban 3y ago
    How would having 99 counterfeit stamps violate that law? I think you/the other person (assuming that's what their question meant) took it as "each page printed only has 99, but they're still printing multiple pages per run" while I meant "each run has 99 stamps, then they distribute them." edit or you think the law could be based on how many counterfeit stamps they had made, not possession. Dunno, we're really spending too much time attacking my bullshit hypothetical that was meant to say "make it hard for the law to have a loophole."
    - Dylan16807 3y ago
      > each run has 99 stamps, then they distribute them In that case they're not making much money per batch and they have to only ever get caught once in their life, so it's not much difference to them, it only makes a significant difference to someone that isn't mass-producing stamps. > Dunno, we're really spending too much time attacking my bullshit hypothetical that was meant to say "make it hard for the law to have a loophole." Well I don't think the original had any loopholes, which is why I'm pushing back on your attempt to say that by pointing out a loophole.