5 ms·

>In the US that's a serious federal felony with up to five years in prison. For counterfeiting _A_ stamp? I guess in the US even breathing the wrong way is pro

>In the US that's a serious federal felony with up to five years in prison. For counterfeiting _A_ stamp? I guess in the US even breathing the wrong way is probably a serious federal felony. Land of the free, and all that...

xnyan 3y ago
there are countries where it’s not a serious crime to counterfeit postage? I think the penalty is double (up to 10 years) in the United Kingdom for example.
- siva7 3y ago
  Yes, there are plenty. A serious crime requires serious damage in some countries so a single counterfeit won't tick that bar.
  - B1FF_PSUVM 3y ago
    'De minimis non curat lex', as those very practical Romans put it
    - pigeons 3y ago
      I was going to reply, "Unum ex multis dica". It's always interesting when two people can see the same thing and come to opposite conclusions!
boomboomsubban 3y ago
I doubt they ever prosecute anyone for counterfeiting a stamp, but if the law only forbid counterfeiting 100 stamps a counterfeiter would do 99 at a time.
- justinclift 3y ago
  ... and it wouldn't be a crime, so what's the issue? :D
- coldtea 3y ago
  >if the law only forbid counterfeiting 100 stamps a counterfeiter would do 99 at a time. And by the second batch they'd have counterfeited 198, so I fail to see the problem...
  - tadfisher 3y ago
    That's how they nab you for structuring.
  - boomboomsubban 3y ago
    They hire someone to take each batch from them. So at best, you can only ever prosecute a fall guy, not the skilled counterfeiter. In essence, it's easier to make any counterfeiting illegal, and then not prosecute the person who once prints a picture of a stamp and tapes it to a letter. Trying to make counterfeiting legal in certain situations can be abusable.
    - Joker_vD 3y ago
      And so they get prosecuted for incitement, conspiracy and organized crime. Seriously, as a rule of thumb, none of those extremely simple loopholes you can come up in five seconds of thinking work: there people were before you, and they too could think (even though in case of lawmakers it can sometimes be hard to imagine that they can actually think).
      - boomboomsubban 3y ago
        If selling 99 stamps is legal, I'm not inciting them to crime, I'm selling them the maximum allowable amount that isn't a crime. Similar with conspiracy and organized crime. And yeah, these loopholes don't work because people tried them and now counterfeiting one stamp is illegal. That's my point.
        Dylan16807 3y ago
        They're hiring a unique person per batch, who gets paid tens of dollars at most, and none of them are willing to say who hired them?
- Dylan16807 3y ago
  Where did "at a time" come from?
  - boomboomsubban 3y ago
    As in "I counterfeit 99 stamps at a time then sell them. That esy I never break the law."
    - boomboomsubban 3y ago
      esy=way.
    - coldtea 3y ago
      Yes, the parents question is meant as "where did the idea that doing 99 'at a time' would somehow bypass a law about >= 100 being illegal comes from?".
      - boomboomsubban 3y ago
        How would having 99 counterfeit stamps violate that law? I think you/the other person (assuming that's what their question meant) took it as "each page printed only has 99, but they're still printing multiple pages per run" while I meant "each run has 99 stamps, then they distribute them." edit or you think the law could be based on how many counterfeit stamps they had made, not possession. Dunno, we're really spending too much time attacking my bullshit hypothetical that was meant to say "make it hard for the law to have a loophole."
        Dylan16807 3y ago
        > each run has 99 stamps, then they distribute them In that case they're not making much money per batch and they have to only ever get caught once in their life, so it's not much difference to them, it only makes a significant difference to someone that isn't mass-producing stamps. > Dunno, we're really spending too much time attacking my bullshit hypothetical that was meant to say "make it hard for the law to have a loophole." Well I don't think the original had any loopholes, which is why I'm pushing back on your attempt to say that by pointing out a loophole.
rtpg 3y ago
I think it's important to internalize that stamps are like a form of currency[0]. Like you stick it on the envelope to pay the shipping fee. There are tax stamps/revenue stamps which are used to pay for things in a way that is hard for the fee collector themselves to steal. I applied for a visa-related thing a month or so ago. The fee was 6000 yen, so I stuck 2 3000 yen stamps on the application form. I had paid the application fee, the money can't be stolen by the public servant taking the application form (well, not easily, at least, I'm sure there are sleight of hands), and the purchasing of the stamp happens at a trusted third party that could commit fraud but is heavily incentivized not to (on account of me being able to directly cite where I bought it, and the agency knowing who I am). [0]: Pedants who want to say it isn't or that it's _exactly_ a form of currency: please go away
- jldugger 3y ago
  >I think it's important to internalize that stamps are like a form of currency[0]. So much so that the original Ponzi scheme involved arbitraging the price of stamps via international reply coupons (and then promptly got way out of hand).
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

xnyan 3y ago

there are countries where it’s not a serious crime to counterfeit postage? I think the penalty is double (up to 10 years) in the United Kingdom for example.

siva7 3y ago
Yes, there are plenty. A serious crime requires serious damage in some countries so a single counterfeit won't tick that bar.
- B1FF_PSUVM 3y ago
  'De minimis non curat lex', as those very practical Romans put it
  - pigeons 3y ago
    I was going to reply, "Unum ex multis dica". It's always interesting when two people can see the same thing and come to opposite conclusions!

boomboomsubban 3y ago

I doubt they ever prosecute anyone for counterfeiting a stamp, but if the law only forbid counterfeiting 100 stamps a counterfeiter would do 99 at a time.

justinclift 3y ago
... and it wouldn't be a crime, so what's the issue? :D
coldtea 3y ago
>if the law only forbid counterfeiting 100 stamps a counterfeiter would do 99 at a time. And by the second batch they'd have counterfeited 198, so I fail to see the problem...
- tadfisher 3y ago
  That's how they nab you for structuring.
- boomboomsubban 3y ago
  They hire someone to take each batch from them. So at best, you can only ever prosecute a fall guy, not the skilled counterfeiter. In essence, it's easier to make any counterfeiting illegal, and then not prosecute the person who once prints a picture of a stamp and tapes it to a letter. Trying to make counterfeiting legal in certain situations can be abusable.
  - Joker_vD 3y ago
    And so they get prosecuted for incitement, conspiracy and organized crime. Seriously, as a rule of thumb, none of those extremely simple loopholes you can come up in five seconds of thinking work: there people were before you, and they too could think (even though in case of lawmakers it can sometimes be hard to imagine that they can actually think).
    - boomboomsubban 3y ago
      If selling 99 stamps is legal, I'm not inciting them to crime, I'm selling them the maximum allowable amount that isn't a crime. Similar with conspiracy and organized crime. And yeah, these loopholes don't work because people tried them and now counterfeiting one stamp is illegal. That's my point.
      - Dylan16807 3y ago
        They're hiring a unique person per batch, who gets paid tens of dollars at most, and none of them are willing to say who hired them?
Dylan16807 3y ago
Where did "at a time" come from?
- boomboomsubban 3y ago
  As in "I counterfeit 99 stamps at a time then sell them. That esy I never break the law."
  - boomboomsubban 3y ago
    esy=way.
  - coldtea 3y ago
    Yes, the parents question is meant as "where did the idea that doing 99 'at a time' would somehow bypass a law about >= 100 being illegal comes from?".
    - boomboomsubban 3y ago
      How would having 99 counterfeit stamps violate that law? I think you/the other person (assuming that's what their question meant) took it as "each page printed only has 99, but they're still printing multiple pages per run" while I meant "each run has 99 stamps, then they distribute them." edit or you think the law could be based on how many counterfeit stamps they had made, not possession. Dunno, we're really spending too much time attacking my bullshit hypothetical that was meant to say "make it hard for the law to have a loophole."
      - Dylan16807 3y ago
        > each run has 99 stamps, then they distribute them In that case they're not making much money per batch and they have to only ever get caught once in their life, so it's not much difference to them, it only makes a significant difference to someone that isn't mass-producing stamps. > Dunno, we're really spending too much time attacking my bullshit hypothetical that was meant to say "make it hard for the law to have a loophole." Well I don't think the original had any loopholes, which is why I'm pushing back on your attempt to say that by pointing out a loophole.

rtpg 3y ago

I think it's important to internalize that stamps are like a form of currency[0]. Like you stick it on the envelope to pay the shipping fee. There are tax stamps/revenue stamps which are used to pay for things in a way that is hard for the fee collector themselves to steal. I applied for a visa-related thing a month or so ago. The fee was 6000 yen, so I stuck 2 3000 yen stamps on the application form. I had paid the application fee, the money can't be stolen by the public servant taking the application form (well, not easily, at least, I'm sure there are sleight of hands), and the purchasing of the stamp happens at a trusted third party that could commit fraud but is heavily incentivized not to (on account of me being able to directly cite where I bought it, and the agency knowing who I am). [0]: Pedants who want to say it isn't or that it's _exactly_ a form of currency: please go away

jldugger 3y ago
>I think it's important to internalize that stamps are like a form of currency[0]. So much so that the original Ponzi scheme involved arbitraging the price of stamps via international reply coupons (and then promptly got way out of hand).

deleted 3y ago

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