5 ms·

Dell tells remote workers that they won't be eligible for promotion

55 points by Plasmoid 3y ago

4d4m 3y ago
Have you noticed something similar where you work in the past year? (promos going to those in-office or hybrid over remote workers)
- para_parolu 3y ago
  In my company ELT tries hard to move work to offshore site because it’s cheaper. In crossoffice team of ~40 people all promos were done in offshore site. This way they hope people in expensive site will quit.
grecy 3y ago
Incredible they’re willing to admit so openly that promotions are not based on work performance. Makes me want to work less.
- fileoffset 3y ago
  Maybe that's the point. Then all the remote workers can be put on PIP for not working as hard as their in-office counterparts
testemailfordg2 3y ago
They understand saying no to remote work would mean a lot of people will start looking for new jobs. Playing with employees emotions attached with promotions to induce them rolling the dice by coming to office....Working from office also doesn't mean you would get promotion... Your skills and experience are what get you ahead truly, rest are a mirage which break with mass firings to save costs....
- zer8k 3y ago
  > Your skills and experience are what get you ahead truly In a decade of working in the industry I have found this to never have been the case. Every promotion I've ever gotten except for maybe the first few gimme promotions was because I was on the radar of someone important enough to make that decision.
  - Noumenon72 3y ago
    Would they really put you on the radar just for being memorable and friendly? Or are your skills what put you on the radar?
    - zer8k 3y ago
      The only reason I was on the radar is because I knew who to socialize with and what they wanted. After early senior engineer every promotion thereafter is typically political. My first order of business at any company is to sort people into buckets of "they can help me" and "they cannot help me" and focus entirely on the first bucket. Those "after work beers" (or the remote equivalent) is where most of the work is actually done, imo. That is not to say I am without merit. But the assertion I am making is I could've probably bullshitted my way into even more positions if my moral compass was just a little bit more skewed. I suppose changing the way you act around a certain person with power is a skill and the reward is the promotion. I know several people at or above my skill level that were promoted either later, or not at all, due to not realizing (or not caring) that merit means almost nothing. Of course, merit is what seals the deal - but "managing your manager" is more important than merit. Similarly, I've used a promotion of my own to put people I like on the right person's radar. It pays to know people. In this case, literally.
  - testemailfordg2 3y ago
    Isn't getting on the radar of someone important, a skill? Knowingly or unknowingly you did something that gave you an edge..If you did it unknowingly then you can saya pure luck..But if you are able to knowingly repeat it, isn't thay skill sir...
lamp_book 3y ago
I like the theory that RTO is driven for sake of the commercial real estate value. Sure enough: https://therealdeal.com/magazine/national-april-2023/dell-dials-up-how-the-tech-billionaire-quietly-became-a-major-real-estate-player/ https://therealdeal.com/magazine/national-april-2023/dell-di...
idiotsecant 3y ago
This is a good thing, they're being honest and letting employees decide if that matters to them or not. I guarantee a lot of places have this as a 'soft' unspoken policy and just don't say it out loud. This is good for workers and good for owners. More places should put their policies out in the open.
- reaperman 3y ago
  I’m just a shareholder, not employee or customer. For me it doesn’t inspire confidence in future performance. Seems like one of those stupid bean-counter moves that leads to organizational decline. I wouldn’t call this “a good thing”, except in the very narrow perspective that you analyzed (I agree that honesty between management and employees generally leads to better outcomes). But I think the benefits of the honesty are far outweighed by the idiocy of the policy.
  - northhanover 3y ago
    The good thing is that you can sell your stock if you don’t agree with management and invest in their competitors who are encouraging remote work.
  - tecoholic 3y ago
    As an investor, I have a question for you. Kindly answer if you have the time. I have always wondered why aren’t the shareholders encouraging WFH more? Clearly it’s cost savings for the company that would help the bottom line. Or is it because investors usually hold a bag of stuff and in them are REITs and companies that own the buildings and people don’t want their portfolio to suffer?
    - reaperman 3y ago
      Biggest investors are Vanguard/Fidelity/etc (anyone who can vote with clients’ 401k shares). $10,000-100,000 doesn’t buy you any influence or control. Some companies like Meta are still 51% controlled by the founder.
    - 3y ago
fsflover 3y ago
Dupe: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39846448 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39846448
- ChrisArchitect 3y ago
  that's a dupe also This is 2 weeks old news https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39728252 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39728252
ChrisArchitect 3y ago
[dupe] More discussion a few weeks ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39728252 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39728252
nunez 3y ago
They're saying the quiet part out loud. Remote folks have been snubbed for promos at lots of places since forever. Completely unnecessary for people on a tech ladder. (Managerial level requires more F2F but doesn't require full RTO)
aussieguy1234 3y ago
This will result in the wrong people being promoted. Not good for the company.
rumblestrut 3y ago
I was going to replace my kid’s aging laptop this year with a Dell. But, I’m a big believer in remote work being the future. I’m sure I will hardly send an impactful message, but dude, you’re totally not getting a Dell now.
choilive 3y ago
Not a employment lawyer but sounds like this could border on constructive dismissal perhaps in combination with other RTO policies.
octokatt 3y ago
This is a really underhanded way to get disabled people who have trouble working in an office to leave en mass. The same for new parents, people struggling to care for elderly family members, and aging workers. Does anyone know of an organization making the quiet part of this conversation louder?

55 points by Plasmoid 3y ago

4d4m 3y ago

Have you noticed something similar where you work in the past year? (promos going to those in-office or hybrid over remote workers)

para_parolu 3y ago
In my company ELT tries hard to move work to offshore site because it’s cheaper. In crossoffice team of ~40 people all promos were done in offshore site. This way they hope people in expensive site will quit.

grecy 3y ago

Incredible they’re willing to admit so openly that promotions are not based on work performance. Makes me want to work less.

fileoffset 3y ago
Maybe that's the point. Then all the remote workers can be put on PIP for not working as hard as their in-office counterparts

testemailfordg2 3y ago

They understand saying no to remote work would mean a lot of people will start looking for new jobs. Playing with employees emotions attached with promotions to induce them rolling the dice by coming to office....Working from office also doesn't mean you would get promotion... Your skills and experience are what get you ahead truly, rest are a mirage which break with mass firings to save costs....

zer8k 3y ago
> Your skills and experience are what get you ahead truly In a decade of working in the industry I have found this to never have been the case. Every promotion I've ever gotten except for maybe the first few gimme promotions was because I was on the radar of someone important enough to make that decision.
- Noumenon72 3y ago
  Would they really put you on the radar just for being memorable and friendly? Or are your skills what put you on the radar?
  - zer8k 3y ago
    The only reason I was on the radar is because I knew who to socialize with and what they wanted. After early senior engineer every promotion thereafter is typically political. My first order of business at any company is to sort people into buckets of "they can help me" and "they cannot help me" and focus entirely on the first bucket. Those "after work beers" (or the remote equivalent) is where most of the work is actually done, imo. That is not to say I am without merit. But the assertion I am making is I could've probably bullshitted my way into even more positions if my moral compass was just a little bit more skewed. I suppose changing the way you act around a certain person with power is a skill and the reward is the promotion. I know several people at or above my skill level that were promoted either later, or not at all, due to not realizing (or not caring) that merit means almost nothing. Of course, merit is what seals the deal - but "managing your manager" is more important than merit. Similarly, I've used a promotion of my own to put people I like on the right person's radar. It pays to know people. In this case, literally.
- testemailfordg2 3y ago
  Isn't getting on the radar of someone important, a skill? Knowingly or unknowingly you did something that gave you an edge..If you did it unknowingly then you can saya pure luck..But if you are able to knowingly repeat it, isn't thay skill sir...

lamp_book 3y ago

I like the theory that RTO is driven for sake of the commercial real estate value. Sure enough: https://therealdeal.com/magazine/national-april-2023/dell-dials-up-how-the-tech-billionaire-quietly-became-a-major-real-estate-player/ https://therealdeal.com/magazine/national-april-2023/dell-di...

idiotsecant 3y ago

This is a good thing, they're being honest and letting employees decide if that matters to them or not. I guarantee a lot of places have this as a 'soft' unspoken policy and just don't say it out loud. This is good for workers and good for owners. More places should put their policies out in the open.

reaperman 3y ago
I’m just a shareholder, not employee or customer. For me it doesn’t inspire confidence in future performance. Seems like one of those stupid bean-counter moves that leads to organizational decline. I wouldn’t call this “a good thing”, except in the very narrow perspective that you analyzed (I agree that honesty between management and employees generally leads to better outcomes). But I think the benefits of the honesty are far outweighed by the idiocy of the policy.
- northhanover 3y ago
  The good thing is that you can sell your stock if you don’t agree with management and invest in their competitors who are encouraging remote work.
- tecoholic 3y ago
  As an investor, I have a question for you. Kindly answer if you have the time. I have always wondered why aren’t the shareholders encouraging WFH more? Clearly it’s cost savings for the company that would help the bottom line. Or is it because investors usually hold a bag of stuff and in them are REITs and companies that own the buildings and people don’t want their portfolio to suffer?
  - reaperman 3y ago
    Biggest investors are Vanguard/Fidelity/etc (anyone who can vote with clients’ 401k shares). $10,000-100,000 doesn’t buy you any influence or control. Some companies like Meta are still 51% controlled by the founder.
  - 3y ago

fsflover 3y ago

Dupe: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39846448 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39846448

ChrisArchitect 3y ago
that's a dupe also This is 2 weeks old news https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39728252 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39728252

ChrisArchitect 3y ago

[dupe] More discussion a few weeks ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39728252 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39728252

nunez 3y ago

They're saying the quiet part out loud. Remote folks have been snubbed for promos at lots of places since forever. Completely unnecessary for people on a tech ladder. (Managerial level requires more F2F but doesn't require full RTO)

aussieguy1234 3y ago

This will result in the wrong people being promoted. Not good for the company.

rumblestrut 3y ago

I was going to replace my kid’s aging laptop this year with a Dell. But, I’m a big believer in remote work being the future. I’m sure I will hardly send an impactful message, but dude, you’re totally not getting a Dell now.

choilive 3y ago

Not a employment lawyer but sounds like this could border on constructive dismissal perhaps in combination with other RTO policies.

octokatt 3y ago

This is a really underhanded way to get disabled people who have trouble working in an office to leave en mass. The same for new parents, people struggling to care for elderly family members, and aging workers. Does anyone know of an organization making the quiet part of this conversation louder?