3 ms·

> thinks opposition to AI is a good thing. Because we don't want nearly every job to be automated by AI? "Crazy world"

by nerdjon 3y ago

bembo 3y ago
Why wouldn't we want jobs to be automated exactly?
- nerdjon 3y ago
  Well at this point in time we live in a capitalist world and people need money to survive? I assume you like being paid, buying things, food, etc. Would it be great if we lived in a utopian society that money no longer mattered. Sure! Even with AI I see basically zero chance of that happening in any reasonable amount of time before AI destroys our society.
- vouaobrasil 3y ago
  Because if a job is automted, it means that the person whose job is automated now is unemployed. Even if we have UBI, it means that the person DOING the automating will get a disproportionate share of the resources compared with the pittance given to the person who was automated. Personally, I don't want my job to be automated. I write for a living and if AI takes my job, I won't get paid. I prefer to create value in the world that other people appreciate. I don't WANT to sit in a concrete cage (an apartment) and consume media, with no real purpose in society. Believe it or not, the majority of people in the world need to feel like they are working for something. Yes, some people will be able to find other causes (mine will be the opposition of AI), but others won't. Of course, that will mean the necessity of drugging people with media (and physical substances...why do you think marijuana is becoming legal in more places?). The end result is a mode of pure consumption for almost all except the elite who control all the production, and they will decide what happens with the world. Personally, I don't want that: I want land and autonomy to use it to grow food and preserve ecosystems. I want the world to be sustainable, and not just set up for the purpose of furthering technology. You speak of societal changes on a year-scale. I'm talking about decades and the long-term. This level of automation is bad, and won't do any favours for humanity except the ultra-rich, who will eventually perish like everyone else.
  - Wissenschafter 3y ago
    I'm always dumbfounded by the luddites on hackernews, it blows my mind.
    - pseudonamed 3y ago
      Is your position that the scenario outlined above is irrational?
      - Wissenschafter 3y ago
        Yes, it is; it's as irrational as seamstresses complaining about looms.
    - vouaobrasil 3y ago
      Don't worry, I am equally dumbfounded by blind faith in technology.
  - pseudonamed 3y ago
    ...unless we change our socio-political systems. A complex endeavour but worth remembering.
    - vouaobrasil 3y ago
      Change, or revolt against them...
- nunez 3y ago
  Because every job that gets automated creates massive unemployment for those who were skilled in it what do you think will happen to us devs if AI gets good enough to do our jobs? Do you think our companies will keep us around because we're just so darn smart? What do you think is _already happening_ to in-house artists, content/technical writers, marketing analysts, and other jobs that are directly impacted by LLMs in their current form?
  - Wissenschafter 3y ago
    I'm not a selfish asshole, just a normal asshole. Yeah, I'm going to be affected by my job also being automated, everyone will. It's not a field specific problem. It's a societal paradigm change.
    - nunez 3y ago
      This doesn't bother you? If not, how come?
Wissenschafter 3y ago
It's crazy you think we don't want our jobs automated away. The whole point of automation is to reduce human labor. Mind boggling people literally choose to want to have to labor even if it is no longer necessary.
- krapp 3y ago
  >Mind boggling people literally choose to want to have to labor even if it is no longer necessary. It is necessary, it just isn't available. We still live in a capitalist society in which anyone not a member of the capitalist class is required to labor in order to afford the necessities of survival. AI means fewer opportunities to do so, despite the requirement remaining constant. No one is choosing to labor under this system, any more than one chooses to eat, drink or sleep. AI is not being implemented to free the labor class from this obligation, it is being implemented to free the capitalist class from the obligation to provide the means of survival to the labor class in exchange for their labor. The end result will not be the labor classes living lives of luxury in creative and intellectual pursuit, but as much unemployment and poverty as the market can bear.

> thinks opposition to AI is a good thing. Because we don't want nearly every job to be automated by AI? "Crazy world"

bembo 3y ago

Why wouldn't we want jobs to be automated exactly?

nerdjon 3y ago
Well at this point in time we live in a capitalist world and people need money to survive? I assume you like being paid, buying things, food, etc. Would it be great if we lived in a utopian society that money no longer mattered. Sure! Even with AI I see basically zero chance of that happening in any reasonable amount of time before AI destroys our society.
vouaobrasil 3y ago
Because if a job is automted, it means that the person whose job is automated now is unemployed. Even if we have UBI, it means that the person DOING the automating will get a disproportionate share of the resources compared with the pittance given to the person who was automated. Personally, I don't want my job to be automated. I write for a living and if AI takes my job, I won't get paid. I prefer to create value in the world that other people appreciate. I don't WANT to sit in a concrete cage (an apartment) and consume media, with no real purpose in society. Believe it or not, the majority of people in the world need to feel like they are working for something. Yes, some people will be able to find other causes (mine will be the opposition of AI), but others won't. Of course, that will mean the necessity of drugging people with media (and physical substances...why do you think marijuana is becoming legal in more places?). The end result is a mode of pure consumption for almost all except the elite who control all the production, and they will decide what happens with the world. Personally, I don't want that: I want land and autonomy to use it to grow food and preserve ecosystems. I want the world to be sustainable, and not just set up for the purpose of furthering technology. You speak of societal changes on a year-scale. I'm talking about decades and the long-term. This level of automation is bad, and won't do any favours for humanity except the ultra-rich, who will eventually perish like everyone else.
- Wissenschafter 3y ago
  I'm always dumbfounded by the luddites on hackernews, it blows my mind.
  - pseudonamed 3y ago
    Is your position that the scenario outlined above is irrational?
    - Wissenschafter 3y ago
      Yes, it is; it's as irrational as seamstresses complaining about looms.
  - vouaobrasil 3y ago
    Don't worry, I am equally dumbfounded by blind faith in technology.
- pseudonamed 3y ago
  ...unless we change our socio-political systems. A complex endeavour but worth remembering.
  - vouaobrasil 3y ago
    Change, or revolt against them...
nunez 3y ago
Because every job that gets automated creates massive unemployment for those who were skilled in it what do you think will happen to us devs if AI gets good enough to do our jobs? Do you think our companies will keep us around because we're just so darn smart? What do you think is _already happening_ to in-house artists, content/technical writers, marketing analysts, and other jobs that are directly impacted by LLMs in their current form?
- Wissenschafter 3y ago
  I'm not a selfish asshole, just a normal asshole. Yeah, I'm going to be affected by my job also being automated, everyone will. It's not a field specific problem. It's a societal paradigm change.
  - nunez 3y ago
    This doesn't bother you? If not, how come?

Wissenschafter 3y ago

It's crazy you think we don't want our jobs automated away. The whole point of automation is to reduce human labor. Mind boggling people literally choose to want to have to labor even if it is no longer necessary.

krapp 3y ago
>Mind boggling people literally choose to want to have to labor even if it is no longer necessary. It is necessary, it just isn't available. We still live in a capitalist society in which anyone not a member of the capitalist class is required to labor in order to afford the necessities of survival. AI means fewer opportunities to do so, despite the requirement remaining constant. No one is choosing to labor under this system, any more than one chooses to eat, drink or sleep. AI is not being implemented to free the labor class from this obligation, it is being implemented to free the capitalist class from the obligation to provide the means of survival to the labor class in exchange for their labor. The end result will not be the labor classes living lives of luxury in creative and intellectual pursuit, but as much unemployment and poverty as the market can bear.