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> Either way, this is an exercise in futility. Is it really? Every drop of opposition towards AI in my book is a good thing. This robots.txt thing is a small d

> Either way, this is an exercise in futility. Is it really? Every drop of opposition towards AI in my book is a good thing. This robots.txt thing is a small drop maybe, but over time public hatred for AI can build and it might in fact be taken down. Especially outside the tech bubble, many people are ambivalent towards AI. Yes, in modern society were are taught to value innovation and ignore its downsides, but the more vocal opponents are against it, the more those downsides will become apparent. Hopefully, it will bring the ruin of all AI companies and research.

cabirum 3y ago
I'm kind of out of the loop in regard why do we need to hate on AI? The bubble will burst given time, like all the other bubbles before. What needed is indifference, not hate.
- starbugs 3y ago
  > What needed is indifference, not hate. Agree that hate is not the solution. But saying "no" decidedly and loudly is absolutely something that people need to relearn and I am happy to see that some do now. Just being indifferent is not sufficient. Finding and taking measures to protect yourself and others is a positive way to approach this IMO.
- nerdjon 3y ago
  I think we need to be careful to assume that the AI bubble is really going to burst, there is way too much money being put into it by big players for them to just give up on it. I mean Microsoft is even pushing for a new key on Windows keyboards. We also have to look at this bubble differently. With Crypto there was a general technical level that was required to use it that many people just did not have. I would say the same is true for most bubbles we have seen. AI is generally available for anyone that has enough understanding on how to open a browser to use. Too many non technical people have just accepted it without understanding the risks. Edit: You can really see just how bad this is going to get if you look at Apple. How they are deemed to be "behind" because they don't have generative AI right now and how they are so desperate that they are looking at Google. I really don't think this is going to burst and really all that is going to happen is even more consolidation and we will be screwed.
  - starbugs 3y ago
    > Edit: You can really see just how bad this is going to get if you look at Apple. How they are deemed to be "behind" because they don't have generative AI right now and how they are so desperate that they are looking at Google. > I really don't think this is going to burst and really all that is going to happen is even more consolidation and we will be screwed. It's always FOMO until it's FUD.
- vouaobrasil 3y ago
  I disagree. If something is truly damaging to society, we need to opposite it actively and crush it. Indifference is what leads people to ignore climate change. Indifference is what leads people to allow corporations to destroy communities. Indifference is what allows global capitalism to keep going. I am not concerned with an AI hype bubble bursting. AI already has enough power to strengthen the industrial society outside the hype. Perhaps hatred is not quite the right word. Perhaps love is a better one: a love for smaller communities and more sustainability. Wasn't it Che Guevara who said, "the true revolutionary is guided by strong feelings of love."? Regardless, indifference is not he answer: it is passionate opposition with a zero tolerance policy towards AI, AI researchers, and AI companies.
Wissenschafter 3y ago
Only on hackernews you get the most ironic of takes. Supposedly someone who is educated and technologically literate to a high degree, thinks opposition to AI is a good thing. Crazy world.
- nerdjon 3y ago
  > thinks opposition to AI is a good thing. Because we don't want nearly every job to be automated by AI? "Crazy world"
  - bembo 3y ago
    Why wouldn't we want jobs to be automated exactly?
    - nerdjon 3y ago
      Well at this point in time we live in a capitalist world and people need money to survive? I assume you like being paid, buying things, food, etc. Would it be great if we lived in a utopian society that money no longer mattered. Sure! Even with AI I see basically zero chance of that happening in any reasonable amount of time before AI destroys our society.
    - vouaobrasil 3y ago
      Because if a job is automted, it means that the person whose job is automated now is unemployed. Even if we have UBI, it means that the person DOING the automating will get a disproportionate share of the resources compared with the pittance given to the person who was automated. Personally, I don't want my job to be automated. I write for a living and if AI takes my job, I won't get paid. I prefer to create value in the world that other people appreciate. I don't WANT to sit in a concrete cage (an apartment) and consume media, with no real purpose in society. Believe it or not, the majority of people in the world need to feel like they are working for something. Yes, some people will be able to find other causes (mine will be the opposition of AI), but others won't. Of course, that will mean the necessity of drugging people with media (and physical substances...why do you think marijuana is becoming legal in more places?). The end result is a mode of pure consumption for almost all except the elite who control all the production, and they will decide what happens with the world. Personally, I don't want that: I want land and autonomy to use it to grow food and preserve ecosystems. I want the world to be sustainable, and not just set up for the purpose of furthering technology. You speak of societal changes on a year-scale. I'm talking about decades and the long-term. This level of automation is bad, and won't do any favours for humanity except the ultra-rich, who will eventually perish like everyone else.

cabirum 3y ago

I'm kind of out of the loop in regard why do we need to hate on AI? The bubble will burst given time, like all the other bubbles before. What needed is indifference, not hate.

starbugs 3y ago
> What needed is indifference, not hate. Agree that hate is not the solution. But saying "no" decidedly and loudly is absolutely something that people need to relearn and I am happy to see that some do now. Just being indifferent is not sufficient. Finding and taking measures to protect yourself and others is a positive way to approach this IMO.
nerdjon 3y ago
I think we need to be careful to assume that the AI bubble is really going to burst, there is way too much money being put into it by big players for them to just give up on it. I mean Microsoft is even pushing for a new key on Windows keyboards. We also have to look at this bubble differently. With Crypto there was a general technical level that was required to use it that many people just did not have. I would say the same is true for most bubbles we have seen. AI is generally available for anyone that has enough understanding on how to open a browser to use. Too many non technical people have just accepted it without understanding the risks. Edit: You can really see just how bad this is going to get if you look at Apple. How they are deemed to be "behind" because they don't have generative AI right now and how they are so desperate that they are looking at Google. I really don't think this is going to burst and really all that is going to happen is even more consolidation and we will be screwed.
- starbugs 3y ago
  > Edit: You can really see just how bad this is going to get if you look at Apple. How they are deemed to be "behind" because they don't have generative AI right now and how they are so desperate that they are looking at Google. > I really don't think this is going to burst and really all that is going to happen is even more consolidation and we will be screwed. It's always FOMO until it's FUD.
vouaobrasil 3y ago
I disagree. If something is truly damaging to society, we need to opposite it actively and crush it. Indifference is what leads people to ignore climate change. Indifference is what leads people to allow corporations to destroy communities. Indifference is what allows global capitalism to keep going. I am not concerned with an AI hype bubble bursting. AI already has enough power to strengthen the industrial society outside the hype. Perhaps hatred is not quite the right word. Perhaps love is a better one: a love for smaller communities and more sustainability. Wasn't it Che Guevara who said, "the true revolutionary is guided by strong feelings of love."? Regardless, indifference is not he answer: it is passionate opposition with a zero tolerance policy towards AI, AI researchers, and AI companies.

Wissenschafter 3y ago

Only on hackernews you get the most ironic of takes. Supposedly someone who is educated and technologically literate to a high degree, thinks opposition to AI is a good thing. Crazy world.

nerdjon 3y ago
> thinks opposition to AI is a good thing. Because we don't want nearly every job to be automated by AI? "Crazy world"
- bembo 3y ago
  Why wouldn't we want jobs to be automated exactly?
  - nerdjon 3y ago
    Well at this point in time we live in a capitalist world and people need money to survive? I assume you like being paid, buying things, food, etc. Would it be great if we lived in a utopian society that money no longer mattered. Sure! Even with AI I see basically zero chance of that happening in any reasonable amount of time before AI destroys our society.
  - vouaobrasil 3y ago
    Because if a job is automted, it means that the person whose job is automated now is unemployed. Even if we have UBI, it means that the person DOING the automating will get a disproportionate share of the resources compared with the pittance given to the person who was automated. Personally, I don't want my job to be automated. I write for a living and if AI takes my job, I won't get paid. I prefer to create value in the world that other people appreciate. I don't WANT to sit in a concrete cage (an apartment) and consume media, with no real purpose in society. Believe it or not, the majority of people in the world need to feel like they are working for something. Yes, some people will be able to find other causes (mine will be the opposition of AI), but others won't. Of course, that will mean the necessity of drugging people with media (and physical substances...why do you think marijuana is becoming legal in more places?). The end result is a mode of pure consumption for almost all except the elite who control all the production, and they will decide what happens with the world. Personally, I don't want that: I want land and autonomy to use it to grow food and preserve ecosystems. I want the world to be sustainable, and not just set up for the purpose of furthering technology. You speak of societal changes on a year-scale. I'm talking about decades and the long-term. This level of automation is bad, and won't do any favours for humanity except the ultra-rich, who will eventually perish like everyone else.