4 ms·

One could say they almost wanted to the security to fail - so they could respond with disproportionate and indiscriminate force to achieve their actual goals.

by r00fus 3y ago

One could say they almost wanted to the security to fail - so they could respond with disproportionate and indiscriminate force to achieve their actual goals. Any sufficiently advanced incompetence is indistinguishable from malice.

falserum 3y ago
if you replace “they” with “prime minister that is hanging by a thread for quite some time”, you would get my personal conspiracy theory.
eastbound 3y ago
[flagged]
- BriggyDwiggs42 3y ago
  [flagged]
- nerdponx 3y ago
  Intent aside, there's certainly a striking difference in the actual outcomes for civilians.
- akira2501 3y ago
  > This is why the international community does not stop Israel The international community has been trying to stop Israel since October. It's just that the UN allows certain "member states" to completely veto resolutions ans Israel enjoys nearly complete and total support for it's genocide from the US. They just recently passed ANOTHER resolution on this immoral war. The US, again, stepped in to make sure it was "non binding." This idea that the world watches Israel with pity and total scorn for the Palestinians is outrageous.
  - overstay8930 3y ago
    The UN can’t and won’t do anything, because it’s not designed to, nobody should care about what’s going on in the UN. It’s basically a “we won WWII” club. Any one of the large economies in the world could write up sanctions that could devastate the Israeli economy, it is not hard to disrupt supply chains. They just know the actual war is Israel vs Iran and Iran is just using the Palestinian resistance as their puppet. Do you honestly think Russia, North Korea, and China are suddenly the champions of human rights in the world or something? If you are pro Palestine you should be grateful someone is finally destroying Hamas (Iran). Just like the US firebombing Tokyo was a humanitarian disaster, do you honestly think the US should have signed a ceasefire with the Empire of Japan? Because I don’t think it’s very controversial to say the civilians in Tokyo didn’t deserve to suffer because of their government’s actions.
  - Supermancho 3y ago
    > The US, again, stepped in to make sure it was "non binding." The US did not step in to make it "non binding". It's a binding measure, without any teeth. The US is not making any effort to enforce or support the measure, which is effectively the same as being non-binding because no other power dares do anything to enforce it any other way. https://youtu.be/DreTodeXHs4?t=739 https://youtu.be/DreTodeXHs4?t=739
- WhatIsAModel 3y ago
  Since when are Israeli citizens classed as civilians? They are settler colonialist larping as legitimate citizens, and ultimately a hostile occupying force. That's simple. Hamas has every right to use force as it was used upon them, to get their land back from this occupying force. Israelis can move and stop occupying other peoples land and then they wouldn't need to worry about these "indiscriminate rocket attacks". Israelis are really all about that I want my cake and to eat it to (and your cake also). A pretty pathetic people tbh.
  - allemagne 3y ago
    >Since when are X citizens classed as civilians? Time to roll the moral dice
mc32 3y ago
I dunno, that sounds awfully close to saying, "the victim deserved it" rather than the attacker being at fault for attacking because the victim dressed in a certain way or did not cross the street when the victim saw a potential aggressor.
- shuntress 3y ago
  > One could say they almost wanted to the security to fail - so they could respond with disproportionate and indiscriminate force to achieve their actual goals. Is very clearly not saying "the victim deserved it". It is saying "the 'victim' was looking for an excuse". Either way, both statements are harmfully reductive.
- lazyasciiart 3y ago
  Only if you conflate the residents and citizens of a state with the organization/people/bureaucracy that runs it. Everyone (afaik) concedes that US intelligence failed catastrophically before 9/11, but nobody think that is blaming the victims who died.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
c420 3y ago
https://www.politico.eu/article/israel-border-troops-women-hamas-warnings-war-october-7-benjamin-netanyahu/ https://www.politico.eu/article/israel-border-troops-women-h... According to Politico, they did indeed ignore the intelligence.
- traceroute66 3y ago
  > According to Politico, they did indeed ignore the intelligence. It has also been reported[1] that they ignored intelligence handed to them on a plate by the Egyptians three days before the raid occurred. [1] https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-67082047 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-67082047
  - underlipton 3y ago
    Apparently something that also happened recently with the ISIS attack in Russia (US intelligence warned them). Unstable or vulnerable regimes using terror as a pretense is not that farfetched, is it? I think we should also be paying attention to this dynamic, considering who is going to be on the ballot this fall.
    - hackable_sand 3y ago
      Trump has been more routinely advocating and threatening violence with a well-established gallery of Hunnic boogie men to provoke his base. I suspect this galvanization is a fear response to a contracted race for immunity. Considering that violence is his response to every effort towards his accountability, lawful exchange of power, and deposition, it follows that he would justify disproportionate violence under even more tenuous pretense.
      - underlipton 3y ago
        I agree. I'm also going to say something a bit controversial: the effect of Roe vs Wade being overturned has been the institution of, effectively, a terror campaign. And while that campaign has been carried out by Republicans... it's been allowed by the Biden administration and congressional Democrats, because they're vulnerable against Trump and need something powerfully persuasive to run on. Securing a woman's right to choose is something that we should have seen Profiles in Courage-type sacrifices for; instead the party under whose watch it was lost are using it in their emails asking for donations. Altogether, it's very worrying, because both sides of the establishment seem willing to threats of violence should they lose as motivation to vote for them. We're aching for a third party.
mufasathegreat 3y ago
[flagged]
- BriggyDwiggs42 3y ago
  Reasonable suspicion without evidence is how I’d label it. It would fit with their other actions.
  - mufasathegreat 3y ago
    The fact that they stopped multiple breach attempts throughout the years is a pretty clear evidence that it doesn't fit their track record at all. Now whether they decided to use this as a good excuse after the fact to perform ethnic cleansing or they are driven by revenge or some misguided attempt to achieve a sense of security is a different story - but the events of October 7th are 100% clear incompetence and negligence.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
mupuff1234 3y ago
One could say that that's an insane take. Any sufficiently sign of incompetence and negligence is usually just that - incompetence and negligence, you know, occam's razor and all.

by r00fus 3y ago

falserum 3y ago

if you replace “they” with “prime minister that is hanging by a thread for quite some time”, you would get my personal conspiracy theory.

eastbound 3y ago

[flagged]

BriggyDwiggs42 3y ago
[flagged]
nerdponx 3y ago
Intent aside, there's certainly a striking difference in the actual outcomes for civilians.
akira2501 3y ago
> This is why the international community does not stop Israel The international community has been trying to stop Israel since October. It's just that the UN allows certain "member states" to completely veto resolutions ans Israel enjoys nearly complete and total support for it's genocide from the US. They just recently passed ANOTHER resolution on this immoral war. The US, again, stepped in to make sure it was "non binding." This idea that the world watches Israel with pity and total scorn for the Palestinians is outrageous.
- overstay8930 3y ago
  The UN can’t and won’t do anything, because it’s not designed to, nobody should care about what’s going on in the UN. It’s basically a “we won WWII” club. Any one of the large economies in the world could write up sanctions that could devastate the Israeli economy, it is not hard to disrupt supply chains. They just know the actual war is Israel vs Iran and Iran is just using the Palestinian resistance as their puppet. Do you honestly think Russia, North Korea, and China are suddenly the champions of human rights in the world or something? If you are pro Palestine you should be grateful someone is finally destroying Hamas (Iran). Just like the US firebombing Tokyo was a humanitarian disaster, do you honestly think the US should have signed a ceasefire with the Empire of Japan? Because I don’t think it’s very controversial to say the civilians in Tokyo didn’t deserve to suffer because of their government’s actions.
- Supermancho 3y ago
  > The US, again, stepped in to make sure it was "non binding." The US did not step in to make it "non binding". It's a binding measure, without any teeth. The US is not making any effort to enforce or support the measure, which is effectively the same as being non-binding because no other power dares do anything to enforce it any other way. https://youtu.be/DreTodeXHs4?t=739 https://youtu.be/DreTodeXHs4?t=739
WhatIsAModel 3y ago
Since when are Israeli citizens classed as civilians? They are settler colonialist larping as legitimate citizens, and ultimately a hostile occupying force. That's simple. Hamas has every right to use force as it was used upon them, to get their land back from this occupying force. Israelis can move and stop occupying other peoples land and then they wouldn't need to worry about these "indiscriminate rocket attacks". Israelis are really all about that I want my cake and to eat it to (and your cake also). A pretty pathetic people tbh.
- allemagne 3y ago
  >Since when are X citizens classed as civilians? Time to roll the moral dice

mc32 3y ago

I dunno, that sounds awfully close to saying, "the victim deserved it" rather than the attacker being at fault for attacking because the victim dressed in a certain way or did not cross the street when the victim saw a potential aggressor.

shuntress 3y ago
> One could say they almost wanted to the security to fail - so they could respond with disproportionate and indiscriminate force to achieve their actual goals. Is very clearly not saying "the victim deserved it". It is saying "the 'victim' was looking for an excuse". Either way, both statements are harmfully reductive.
lazyasciiart 3y ago
Only if you conflate the residents and citizens of a state with the organization/people/bureaucracy that runs it. Everyone (afaik) concedes that US intelligence failed catastrophically before 9/11, but nobody think that is blaming the victims who died.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

c420 3y ago

https://www.politico.eu/article/israel-border-troops-women-hamas-warnings-war-october-7-benjamin-netanyahu/ https://www.politico.eu/article/israel-border-troops-women-h... According to Politico, they did indeed ignore the intelligence.

traceroute66 3y ago
> According to Politico, they did indeed ignore the intelligence. It has also been reported[1] that they ignored intelligence handed to them on a plate by the Egyptians three days before the raid occurred. [1] https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-67082047 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-67082047
- underlipton 3y ago
  Apparently something that also happened recently with the ISIS attack in Russia (US intelligence warned them). Unstable or vulnerable regimes using terror as a pretense is not that farfetched, is it? I think we should also be paying attention to this dynamic, considering who is going to be on the ballot this fall.
  - hackable_sand 3y ago
    Trump has been more routinely advocating and threatening violence with a well-established gallery of Hunnic boogie men to provoke his base. I suspect this galvanization is a fear response to a contracted race for immunity. Considering that violence is his response to every effort towards his accountability, lawful exchange of power, and deposition, it follows that he would justify disproportionate violence under even more tenuous pretense.
    - underlipton 3y ago
      I agree. I'm also going to say something a bit controversial: the effect of Roe vs Wade being overturned has been the institution of, effectively, a terror campaign. And while that campaign has been carried out by Republicans... it's been allowed by the Biden administration and congressional Democrats, because they're vulnerable against Trump and need something powerfully persuasive to run on. Securing a woman's right to choose is something that we should have seen Profiles in Courage-type sacrifices for; instead the party under whose watch it was lost are using it in their emails asking for donations. Altogether, it's very worrying, because both sides of the establishment seem willing to threats of violence should they lose as motivation to vote for them. We're aching for a third party.

mufasathegreat 3y ago

[flagged]

BriggyDwiggs42 3y ago
Reasonable suspicion without evidence is how I’d label it. It would fit with their other actions.
- mufasathegreat 3y ago
  The fact that they stopped multiple breach attempts throughout the years is a pretty clear evidence that it doesn't fit their track record at all. Now whether they decided to use this as a good excuse after the fact to perform ethnic cleansing or they are driven by revenge or some misguided attempt to achieve a sense of security is a different story - but the events of October 7th are 100% clear incompetence and negligence.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

mupuff1234 3y ago

One could say that that's an insane take. Any sufficiently sign of incompetence and negligence is usually just that - incompetence and negligence, you know, occam's razor and all.