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> instead of leaving residents dealing with those costs. Residents will be mostly the ones paying these costs. Residents are not exempted.
by iooi 3y ago
> instead of leaving residents dealing with those costs.
Residents will be mostly the ones paying these costs. Residents are not exempted.
- nayuki 3y agoResidents living in the congestion pricing zone aren't the ones commuting into the zone.
- srndsnd 3y agoIf you live in Manhattan south of 60th, your number one transit option should almost never be driving a car.
- busterarm 3y agoA good chunk of southeastern Manhattan is dramatically underserved by public transit, despite what the MTA's map would have you believe. I'm talking about from the Seaport all the way up to Alphabet City. I hope you've got strong legs. Tangentially, this is one of the reasons that nearly-invisible corners of Manhattan like the eastern end of Cherry St and Water St still have serious crime problems today. Honestly that whole stretch between Smith Houses and Vladeck Houses is pretty fucked.
- TomK32 3y agoFrom Wikipedia 3.7 million people were employed in New York City; Manhattan is the main employment center with 56% of all jobs.[19] Of those working in Manhattan, 30% commute from within Manhattan. And: The primary mode of transportation in New York City is rail. Only 6% of shopping trips in Manhattan involve the use of a car. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transportation_in_New_York_City https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transportation_in_New_York_Cit...
- ghaff 3y agoNYC, and specifically Manhattan, is pretty much the only US city where you can get by pretty easily without owning a car but there's no cultural expectation with respect to friends and recreational options that you have one.
- CharlesW 3y agoChicago is like this as well.
- ghaff 3y agoChicago probably comes closest. Yes, it's not really binary.
- treyd 3y agoYou can get by without a car in Boston as I do as well, if you work and live in the city.
- ghaff 3y agoThat applies to a number of cities but that's the caveat. Especially if you're a bit older, it's common for friends to live outside the city, many jobs aren't in the city, there are activities you might like to do outside the city etc. Yes, there are rental cars but that's the type of thing I was getting at with my comment about cultural expectations. Everyone in my circle who lives in Boston/Cambridge owns a car.
- hparadiz 3y agoWhen I lived in Philly I still drove to do my shopping but I had coworkers that didn't even have cars.
- fatnoah 3y ago> You can get by without a car in Boston as I do as well, if you work and live in the city. FWIW, I lived in the city and worked in a suburb, and also was able to live car-free without issue. This was in the days before ride-hailing apps, so I imagine it'd be even easier now. (Not technically car-free, I know)
- ghaff 3y agoI’ve always worked out by 495 not adjacent to commuter rail. So living in town without a car would have been impossible. Indeed would have been too long a commute for me with a car.
- cryptonector 3y agoMaybe Manhattanites should have to pay $15/day to park their cars on the street. That would quickly curb traffic issues in the city.
- apstls 3y agoI would love if (_consistently available_) $15/day street parking was a thing in Manhattan, it'd be a good deal cheaper than garages and obviously a lot more convenient than keeping your car elsewhere. There isn't much benefit to having a car in Manhattan for day-to-day life, but it would be nice to have for things like day trips. Right now I park my car about 45 minutes away in another borough (at my family's house) so when I do need to drive I have a +90min fixed cost added to my commute time.
- jcranmer 3y agoFWIW, Manhattan commercial real estate goes for about $80/ft²/yr. A parking space therefore costs about $40/day in real estate rent, so $15/day is well below costs.
- supertrope 3y agoIs that $80/ft^2/yr raw land value? Indoor space cannot be directly compared against a spot in a garage that’s not climate controlled and is more vulnerable to vandalism.
- supertrope 3y agoFor more on this solution read The High Cost of Free Parking by Donald Shoup.
- timr 3y agoThe primary mode of transportation is rail, but even ignoring taxis and Ubers (which we all use sometimes) we depend on things delivered by cars. They don't bring groceries or Amazon deliveries on the subway. This stuff adds up, and is a big reason why it's expensive to live here.
- arcticbull 3y agoI guess so, but a $15 toll vs whatever it is now isn't going to impact the price of goods materially unless all those trucks are mostly empty, in which case, good?
- timr 3y agoIt's $24 for small trucks, and $36 for large trucks. Plus the $1.25/$2.50 for taxis and Ubers, of course. I grant you that it's relatively small when amortized over a truck full of packages, but it's stupid to include trucks at all. They haven't thought it through beyond a superficial level (or worse: they have, and this was intentional). Regardless, Manhattan is not City of London. City of London is one tiny little corner of London. This tax is closer to the equivalent of putting congestion pricing on all of London inside of M25.
- eduction 3y agoNone of those numbers address the question at issue, which is, "What percentage of vehicles used in Manattan on a given day are from outside Manhattan?" >Of those working in Manhattan, 30% commute from within Manhattan. Most commuters terminating in Manhattan are on mass transit so this stat doesn't really speak to the car question. Also a lot of vehicular traffic in Manhattan is not to do with commuting. (I suspect the person you are replying to is incorrect, incidentally; I take no position in this argument. Your comment is a bit of a non sequitur is all.)
- mgce 3y agoSome review from 2007: https://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/12/nyregion/12traffic.html https://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/12/nyregion/12traffic.html > Census data show that more city residents than suburbanites drive to work in Manhattan every day, according to Mr. Schaller. He estimated that 263,000 people in 19 counties in and around New York City drive regularly to jobs in Manhattan below 60th Street. Of those, 53 percent, or 141,000, live in the five boroughs, Mr. Schaller said. The greatest numbers are from Queens, with 51,300, and Brooklyn, with 33,400. About 23,900 auto commuters live in Manhattan, while 17,400 are from the Bronx and 15,200 from Staten Island. The suburban area with the most auto commuters to Manhattan is Nassau County, with 22,091 people driving to work in the borough, followed by Bergen County, with 19,975. So 53% from NYC, 10% from Manhattan, 47% from outside the city. Only counting commuting as you note.
- vkou 3y agoIt's fine for residents who inflict externalities on other residents to get billed for that privilege.
- paxys 3y agoResidents aren't the ones driving into the city every day.
- williamsmj 3y ago22% of households in Manhattan own a car. There are about half a million households below 60th St. So there are about 100,000 cars in lower Manhattan that belong to residents. Of those, about 25,000 are used to get to work each day. The rest sit in garages. So no, residents will not mostly be the ones paying the costs. But suppose they were. So what? Sounds fair to me. We don't make the subway free for residents. Why should it be free to drive and store your vehicle just because you're a resident?
- programjames 3y ago> We don't make subway free for residents... I think you went the wrong way with that argument. Why don't we make the subway free for residents? All the infrastructure for cars is at least as expensive, but it's still free. (To be fair, there's a gas tax and tolls, but it's still massively subsidized.)
- xyzelement 3y agoThe MTA is also -heavily- subsidized. It doesn't cost the MTA merely $2.75 or whatever it is nowadays to provide you a ride. I have no idea whether roads or MTA is more subsidized, but certainly there's a lot of upstate tax dollars going towards NYC transit...