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I am glad we have an alternative to Docker, we tried to switch to it recently but it didn't work out. Hopefully long term it gets easier and easier to switch +

I am glad we have an alternative to Docker, we tried to switch to it recently but it didn't work out. Hopefully long term it gets easier and easier to switch + performance improves.

buzzwords 3y ago
Yeah, I had similar experience. Specially test containers was the issue for me.
zaphar 3y ago
What didn't work? I'm curious because it's mostly been a drop in replacement for me.
- bravetraveler 3y ago
  A lot of people rely on/benefit from the rootful daemon I'm a fan of podman but this "drop in replacement" meme needs to pass. It's only true on the outermost surface
  - zaphar 3y ago
    I'm genuinely curious here. I've literally never run into anything that required the rootful daemon. What exactly are people relying on that requires that?
    - Fire-Dragon-DoL 3y ago
      Expose port 443 (yes, for https). i know there are workarounds, just saying it is not a drop-in. I decided to run an app in docker rootless in my personal server and there are a whole bunch of problems related to that. A lot of images expect to be run as "root all the way down"
    - bravetraveler 3y ago
      Most common/immediate example: mounting volumes to files they normally can't interact with. As a normal, non-root user, that is! One may need to account for permissions and ownerships more when using podman compared to Docker. Being in the 'docker' group allows the daemon to set the stage for you. Many ways to address it. For example, using named volumes instead of mounts. ... but a lot of people use mounts expecting something different than what podman offers, due to permissions/ownerships; it is notable
      - zaphar 3y ago
        Wow, that seems like using Docker wrong. But I guess if you got used to abusing it like that then not being able to do so is gonna hurt a bit.
        bravetraveler 3y ago
        Eh, it's an alright use for Docker. I get not using named volumes - easy to forget they exist. It's tough for me to point 'blame' any which way, both models are fine enough. UID/GID stuff can get messy fast, I prefer podman/'seeing the warts'
jbverschoor 3y ago
OrbStack :)
dimgl 3y ago
Been using Orbstack and it's been flawless.
- smcleod 3y ago
  Orbstack is nice to use, but closed source which is a real shame.
itsautomatisch 3y ago
I'm curious what issues you have with it, as it should be pretty much a 1:1 replacement when you use the Docker compatibility for most people. Rancher Desktop is also a pretty good replacement as well there are things that aren't quite working in Podman.
- rgovostes 3y ago
  I've been using it in lieu Docker Desktop for Mac for the past year and it mostly works, but I do hit issues and have to debug them. - Several issues with non-native containers which are commonly encountered on Apple Silicon Macs: multi-platform containers start much slower, sudo commands in non-native containers don't work, the TARGETARCH variable was set wrong (fixed), the Docker API implementation didn't pay attention to the specified platform (fixed). - The daemon that creates docker.sock so you can use the Docker CLI doesn't clean up after itself if you uninstall, and this breaks Docker Desktop if you want to switch back (say, to investigate one of these incompatibilities). - Host directories you want to mount into containers need to be configured when the machine VM is created. - The machine VM defaults to using an unstable image, which completely broke in September 2023 for a few days. https://github.com/search?q=org%3Acontainers%20is%3Aissue%20author%3Argov&type=issues https://github.com/search?q=org%3Acontainers%20is%3Aissue%20...
  - acdha 3y ago
    > sudo commands in non-native containers don't work I haven’t seen that - do you know which flavor Linux that affected?
    - rgovostes 3y ago
      It has to do with the binfmt_misc configuration on the podman machine VM, which is used on non-Linux hosts like macOS. I've proposed that they update the machine VM configuration to fix the inconsistency with Docker Desktop but the conversation petered out. Solution: https://stackoverflow.com/a/77354286/145504 https://stackoverflow.com/a/77354286/145504 Discussion: https://github.com/containers/podman/discussions/20445 https://github.com/containers/podman/discussions/20445

I am glad we have an alternative to Docker, we tried to switch to it recently but it didn't work out. Hopefully long term it gets easier and easier to switch + performance improves.

buzzwords 3y ago

Yeah, I had similar experience. Specially test containers was the issue for me.

zaphar 3y ago

What didn't work? I'm curious because it's mostly been a drop in replacement for me.

bravetraveler 3y ago
A lot of people rely on/benefit from the rootful daemon I'm a fan of podman but this "drop in replacement" meme needs to pass. It's only true on the outermost surface
- zaphar 3y ago
  I'm genuinely curious here. I've literally never run into anything that required the rootful daemon. What exactly are people relying on that requires that?
  - Fire-Dragon-DoL 3y ago
    Expose port 443 (yes, for https). i know there are workarounds, just saying it is not a drop-in. I decided to run an app in docker rootless in my personal server and there are a whole bunch of problems related to that. A lot of images expect to be run as "root all the way down"
  - bravetraveler 3y ago
    Most common/immediate example: mounting volumes to files they normally can't interact with. As a normal, non-root user, that is! One may need to account for permissions and ownerships more when using podman compared to Docker. Being in the 'docker' group allows the daemon to set the stage for you. Many ways to address it. For example, using named volumes instead of mounts. ... but a lot of people use mounts expecting something different than what podman offers, due to permissions/ownerships; it is notable
    - zaphar 3y ago
      Wow, that seems like using Docker wrong. But I guess if you got used to abusing it like that then not being able to do so is gonna hurt a bit.
      - bravetraveler 3y ago
        Eh, it's an alright use for Docker. I get not using named volumes - easy to forget they exist. It's tough for me to point 'blame' any which way, both models are fine enough. UID/GID stuff can get messy fast, I prefer podman/'seeing the warts'

jbverschoor 3y ago

OrbStack :)

dimgl 3y ago

Been using Orbstack and it's been flawless.

smcleod 3y ago
Orbstack is nice to use, but closed source which is a real shame.

itsautomatisch 3y ago

I'm curious what issues you have with it, as it should be pretty much a 1:1 replacement when you use the Docker compatibility for most people. Rancher Desktop is also a pretty good replacement as well there are things that aren't quite working in Podman.

rgovostes 3y ago
I've been using it in lieu Docker Desktop for Mac for the past year and it mostly works, but I do hit issues and have to debug them. - Several issues with non-native containers which are commonly encountered on Apple Silicon Macs: multi-platform containers start much slower, sudo commands in non-native containers don't work, the TARGETARCH variable was set wrong (fixed), the Docker API implementation didn't pay attention to the specified platform (fixed). - The daemon that creates docker.sock so you can use the Docker CLI doesn't clean up after itself if you uninstall, and this breaks Docker Desktop if you want to switch back (say, to investigate one of these incompatibilities). - Host directories you want to mount into containers need to be configured when the machine VM is created. - The machine VM defaults to using an unstable image, which completely broke in September 2023 for a few days. https://github.com/search?q=org%3Acontainers%20is%3Aissue%20author%3Argov&type=issues https://github.com/search?q=org%3Acontainers%20is%3Aissue%20...
- acdha 3y ago
  > sudo commands in non-native containers don't work I haven’t seen that - do you know which flavor Linux that affected?
  - rgovostes 3y ago
    It has to do with the binfmt_misc configuration on the podman machine VM, which is used on non-Linux hosts like macOS. I've proposed that they update the machine VM configuration to fix the inconsistency with Docker Desktop but the conversation petered out. Solution: https://stackoverflow.com/a/77354286/145504 https://stackoverflow.com/a/77354286/145504 Discussion: https://github.com/containers/podman/discussions/20445 https://github.com/containers/podman/discussions/20445