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The problem with devops replacing the old title “sysadmin” was that the dev part dragged in the worst thing about developer culture: the love of complexity and
by api 3y ago
The problem with devops replacing the old title “sysadmin” was that the dev part dragged in the worst thing about developer culture: the love of complexity and the tendency to build massive towers of it.
Sysadmins usually avoided complexity because their attitude toward it was more sensible: it’s expensive, fragile, and tends to actually multiply failure modes.
I also blame cloud marketing. This stuff is a gigantic money printer for cloud companies. It’s in their interest to encourage as much over engineering as possible, especially if it locks you into things like Kubernetes that are hard to run and thus usually used as services.
- hparadiz 3y agoIf you guys don't see the value of being able to click on a button on a website to deploy, perfectly, everytime over some guy sshing into the box and running git pull I dunno what to tell you.
- mmmm2 3y agoEmacs has a button for that :-).
- banku_brougham 3y agoPeople arent missing the value, nobody is saying it wont perform as advertised -- the discussion is about the cost.
- hparadiz 3y agoSetting up a testing & deploy via a CI script is basically free. AWS gives away CodeDeploy for free. Ansible is open source. I learned all this stuff working on open source stuff where platforms like GitHub give you free compute time.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- rmbyrro 3y agoThe discussion here is not the method of deployment, but the infra architecture. You don't need k8s, containers, and multiple cloud instances to automate deployment. It's perfectly possible and simple to implement a button to deploy on a single machine. Heck, on OVH or Hetzner, you can have a dedicated bare metal machine with many cores and RAM exclusive to you, cheaper than famous cloud instances. These bare metals will handle what takes sometimes hundreds of containers to handle, with a much simple and easy to maintain infra.
- moondev 3y agoYou can deploy k8s on a single machine though. This way you get the benefit of a standardized, documented API without the burden of multiple machines.
- zer00eyz 3y agoYour still setting up K8's... I have scp'd my go binary and set it up in system d. Nothing about K8 or containers are light... they are buckets where bad devs hide the bodies in most cases.
- JodieBenitez 3y agoHey ! I click on a button to deploy. Turns out that button does the sshing but that still counts, right ?
- ProblemExplorer 3y ago> If you guys don't see the value of being able to click on a button on a website to deploy, perfectly, everytime over some guy sshing into the box and running git pull I dunno what to tell you. Maybe clicking a button that sshes into the box and runs git pull?
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- erik_seaberg 3y agoPSA: please don't follow a manual checklist over ssh. At least write an Ansible playbook that does those things repeatably, or even better, script idempotent changes in an .rpm or .deb to install.
- dukeyukey 3y agoI swear, I've come to identify myself simple stacker. Complexity should be avoided wherever reasonably possible. But where it's not, it's best left and maintained with the devs who want it.
- worik 3y ago> The problem with devops replacing the old title “sysadmin”.... That is a very good observation. I think that now I am going to stop using the term Dev Ops and start using System Administration. Wise words, thank you
- red-iron-pine 3y ago> I also blame cloud marketing. burying the lede, mon ami. biggest tech companies in the world, the ones using this tech, are also the ones with massive ad and marketing complexes. "of course cloud and devops and k8s are great, buy buy buy!" a decade later OpEx is out of control and wrangling the craziness requires its own brand of "FinOps"