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Depends who are “we”: https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2023/02/6/7388039/index.amp https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2023/02/6/7388039/index.a...

Amezarak 3y ago
> Details:The National Resistance Center has reported that the Russians are using the pretext of removing "Nazi literature" to explain their actions, while the list of such literature includes all books in Ukrainian. In doing so, the occupiers are repeating the practice typical of Nazi Germany. Ah, that's the justification. I've never understood the official Russian "denazification" position; it should be clear to them no one now or ever is going to take it seriously, why continue with this absurd pretense? That said, in this case it's more barbed than the article suggests. As part of denazification, the Allies did destroy books. To suggest book destruction is what typifies Nazis is absurd unless we also call the Allies Nazis. > As a consequence a list was drawn up of over 30,000 book titles, ranging from school textbooks to poetry, which were then banned. All copies of books on the list were confiscated and destroyed; the possession of a book on the list was made a punishable offense. All the millions of copies of these books were to be confiscated and destroyed. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denazification#Censorship https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denazification#Censorship That said, Aztec culture was full of horrors we can now no longer even imagine, paling even before the Nazis. To the extent the destruction of codices was deliberate, much of what went on would have seemed to be a relatively necessary de-Aztecification.
- iperboreo 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - lukan 3y ago
    Sorry, but this meta vague mysteries conspiracy claim thing usually does not fly here. Either you have something to say, then say it, or don't.
    - iperboreo 3y ago
      [flagged]
      - lukan 3y ago
        Well, so far it is not even a conspiracy, as you said nothing except saying you cannot say it. Things very seldom get deleted here btw. but yes they do get flagged (and hidden for most users unless they choose to see it, like me) if many think you are not contributing. So your post is already flagged, you are now free to say it, if you have anything to say about the matter.
        iperboreo 3y ago
        " if you have anything to say about the matter." Effectively banning Russian language (they cannot, but they do try), tacit license to use violence against people who see themselves as Russians (massacre of Odessa, other cases), the ukranian nationalism which is a direct continuation of that of nazi collaborationists and jew murderers (yes, I know that Zelensky is a jew; so am I). Encouraging killing russians (all russians) on their telegram channels. I could compose here a text with examples etc, but I don't see the point of doing this. I think this post will soon be deleted ("flagged"), the account shadow banned or whatever, and so I would simply waste my time.
        lukan 3y ago
        So you are saying the reason for russia to destroy everthing ukraine, is the ukraine trying to destroy everything russian in ukraine, after russia invaded in 2014? Maybe you got cause and effect mixed up here? In either way, I condemn both attempts at attacking different cultures. Still, ukraine did not declare there is basically no russia. And the did not invade russia to exterminate. But russian officials did it with ukraine. Saying they are all russian. And invaded. And are destroying everything ukraine in Ukraine. That is the reason Ukraine tolerates their nazis, as they fight against the threat to all of them. But they surely ain't all Nazis. That is just a weak reason to reestablish a russian empire. And that's the main thing here happening, for some reason Ukraine does not want to be part of your empire anymore and you try to force them. (After russia confirmed their sovereignty in Budapest 1994)
kristopolous 3y ago
Sure it's still happening. Seems to be less common. That's a good thing.
- gradschool 3y ago
  I think it continues to happen in forms we don't easily recognize because of our biases. When Google tried to scan every book in existence, the copyright lobby put a stop to it because of "intellectual property rights". Nobody's claiming that Sci-hub is sacreligious, but it's on our cultural gatekeepers' hitlist all the same. I suspect that future generations will view these events in the same light as the destruction of the Mayan codices or the library of Alexandria.
iperboreo 3y ago
[flagged]
- dziulius 3y ago
  Or maybe people here are not brain-dead and russian propaganda does not fly here. It's not like russians occupied bunch of Ukrainian territory and started burning books there.
  - iperboreo 3y ago
    You are flattering yourself. The level of US people's acquaintance with anything outside of their country is well known across the world, and I am afraid that the information you get from your media is not as informative as you think. On my cell phone I have a video of some polish mercenaries (or volunteers) burning Russian church books, laughing and obviously pleased about what they are doing. I will share it with you if you want. In Kiev, not long ago, a monument to Pushkin was taken down. Bulgakov is practically forbidden. I will stop here.
    - dziulius 3y ago
      Have you stopped for a moment to consider why it’s happening? Every single person in former eastern block (including me) is sick of russian propaganda and being ruled by them for last few hundred years. War in Ukraine was a great excuse to get rid of russian sh**.
      - iperboreo 3y ago
        I will point to the fact that before the collapse of Soviet Union, most Ukranians did not see any difference between them and Russians, and most of them voted for keeping Soviet Union intact in the referendum held on 17.3.1991 (as in most other USSR republics), ignored then by Yeltsin and other people who wanted to get their share of power sponsored by US. The division between Russia and Ukraine, as far as I know, was mostly administrative. In Odessa and Kiev people laughed at ukranian nationalism, which was then confined to L'vov and such places. As for "hundreds of years", Russia was seen as liberator by the same eastern Europe when it fought against the Turks and nazi Germany, was seen as oppressor in some of Caucasus and in Poland, which in their turn thought it was their right to take the land of barbaric Russians. And in the Baltic states there are sources from the 16th century (Guagnini, an italian at the service of Polish court) which describe the Lithuanian Vitold governing Russians in Vilnius, stating that there seem to be more Russian Orthodox churches in Vilnius than catholic ones (and Guagnini cannot be suspected in sympathy to Russians). So you see, you simplify history, and you do so, I think, first because you don't read, and then because your own country just changed one empire for another.

Amezarak 3y ago

> Details:The National Resistance Center has reported that the Russians are using the pretext of removing "Nazi literature" to explain their actions, while the list of such literature includes all books in Ukrainian. In doing so, the occupiers are repeating the practice typical of Nazi Germany. Ah, that's the justification. I've never understood the official Russian "denazification" position; it should be clear to them no one now or ever is going to take it seriously, why continue with this absurd pretense? That said, in this case it's more barbed than the article suggests. As part of denazification, the Allies did destroy books. To suggest book destruction is what typifies Nazis is absurd unless we also call the Allies Nazis. > As a consequence a list was drawn up of over 30,000 book titles, ranging from school textbooks to poetry, which were then banned. All copies of books on the list were confiscated and destroyed; the possession of a book on the list was made a punishable offense. All the millions of copies of these books were to be confiscated and destroyed. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denazification#Censorship https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denazification#Censorship That said, Aztec culture was full of horrors we can now no longer even imagine, paling even before the Nazis. To the extent the destruction of codices was deliberate, much of what went on would have seemed to be a relatively necessary de-Aztecification.

iperboreo 3y ago
[flagged]
- lukan 3y ago
  Sorry, but this meta vague mysteries conspiracy claim thing usually does not fly here. Either you have something to say, then say it, or don't.
  - iperboreo 3y ago
    [flagged]
    - lukan 3y ago
      Well, so far it is not even a conspiracy, as you said nothing except saying you cannot say it. Things very seldom get deleted here btw. but yes they do get flagged (and hidden for most users unless they choose to see it, like me) if many think you are not contributing. So your post is already flagged, you are now free to say it, if you have anything to say about the matter.
      - iperboreo 3y ago
        " if you have anything to say about the matter." Effectively banning Russian language (they cannot, but they do try), tacit license to use violence against people who see themselves as Russians (massacre of Odessa, other cases), the ukranian nationalism which is a direct continuation of that of nazi collaborationists and jew murderers (yes, I know that Zelensky is a jew; so am I). Encouraging killing russians (all russians) on their telegram channels. I could compose here a text with examples etc, but I don't see the point of doing this. I think this post will soon be deleted ("flagged"), the account shadow banned or whatever, and so I would simply waste my time.
        lukan 3y ago
        So you are saying the reason for russia to destroy everthing ukraine, is the ukraine trying to destroy everything russian in ukraine, after russia invaded in 2014? Maybe you got cause and effect mixed up here? In either way, I condemn both attempts at attacking different cultures. Still, ukraine did not declare there is basically no russia. And the did not invade russia to exterminate. But russian officials did it with ukraine. Saying they are all russian. And invaded. And are destroying everything ukraine in Ukraine. That is the reason Ukraine tolerates their nazis, as they fight against the threat to all of them. But they surely ain't all Nazis. That is just a weak reason to reestablish a russian empire. And that's the main thing here happening, for some reason Ukraine does not want to be part of your empire anymore and you try to force them. (After russia confirmed their sovereignty in Budapest 1994)

kristopolous 3y ago

Sure it's still happening. Seems to be less common. That's a good thing.

gradschool 3y ago
I think it continues to happen in forms we don't easily recognize because of our biases. When Google tried to scan every book in existence, the copyright lobby put a stop to it because of "intellectual property rights". Nobody's claiming that Sci-hub is sacreligious, but it's on our cultural gatekeepers' hitlist all the same. I suspect that future generations will view these events in the same light as the destruction of the Mayan codices or the library of Alexandria.

iperboreo 3y ago

[flagged]

dziulius 3y ago
Or maybe people here are not brain-dead and russian propaganda does not fly here. It's not like russians occupied bunch of Ukrainian territory and started burning books there.
- iperboreo 3y ago
  You are flattering yourself. The level of US people's acquaintance with anything outside of their country is well known across the world, and I am afraid that the information you get from your media is not as informative as you think. On my cell phone I have a video of some polish mercenaries (or volunteers) burning Russian church books, laughing and obviously pleased about what they are doing. I will share it with you if you want. In Kiev, not long ago, a monument to Pushkin was taken down. Bulgakov is practically forbidden. I will stop here.
  - dziulius 3y ago
    Have you stopped for a moment to consider why it’s happening? Every single person in former eastern block (including me) is sick of russian propaganda and being ruled by them for last few hundred years. War in Ukraine was a great excuse to get rid of russian sh**.
    - iperboreo 3y ago
      I will point to the fact that before the collapse of Soviet Union, most Ukranians did not see any difference between them and Russians, and most of them voted for keeping Soviet Union intact in the referendum held on 17.3.1991 (as in most other USSR republics), ignored then by Yeltsin and other people who wanted to get their share of power sponsored by US. The division between Russia and Ukraine, as far as I know, was mostly administrative. In Odessa and Kiev people laughed at ukranian nationalism, which was then confined to L'vov and such places. As for "hundreds of years", Russia was seen as liberator by the same eastern Europe when it fought against the Turks and nazi Germany, was seen as oppressor in some of Caucasus and in Poland, which in their turn thought it was their right to take the land of barbaric Russians. And in the Baltic states there are sources from the 16th century (Guagnini, an italian at the service of Polish court) which describe the Lithuanian Vitold governing Russians in Vilnius, stating that there seem to be more Russian Orthodox churches in Vilnius than catholic ones (and Guagnini cannot be suspected in sympathy to Russians). So you see, you simplify history, and you do so, I think, first because you don't read, and then because your own country just changed one empire for another.