4 ms·

That final boss, Trimming the Herbs, has definitely turned out to be a hacked (TAS) level, so The Last Dance was the last, already beaten level. This article is

by makin 3y ago

That final boss, Trimming the Herbs, has definitely turned out to be a hacked (TAS) level, so The Last Dance was the last, already beaten level. This article is fairly outdated for a developing story.

BryantD 3y ago
Beat me to it! See https://www.nintendolife.com/news/2024/03/random-its-done-every-super-mario-maker-level-has-been-cleared-before-wii-us-online-shutdown https://www.nintendolife.com/news/2024/03/random-its-done-ev... for more.
permo-w 3y ago
interesting nonetheless
TillE 3y ago
That was always by far the most likely explanation, it was the general opinion of top-level SMM players. Something like 10 frame-perfect inputs with a lot of precise movement, it's just not plausible. He's not really clear about how exactly he did it, but it's pretty easy to just take a controller cable, wire it into a microcontroller, and program inputs. A lot of people were saying "there was no TAS in 2017", meaning I suppose there were no specific tools for emulator at the time, but that's just irrelevant when you can take a day or two to trial-and-error it.
- bakugo 3y ago
  I'm fairly sure the Wii U was already hacked by 2017, so he could've just played the inputs back on the console itself. Either that or just hack the game into thinking he cleared it when he didn't.
  - pjerem 3y ago
    No need to hack anything, you just have to make a Bluetooth controller with the same characteristics than Nintendo’s controllers. They are pretty standard.
- kevinventullo 3y ago
  I mean tasvideos.org goes back to 2003: https://tasvideos.org/SiteHistory#2003 https://tasvideos.org/SiteHistory#2003
  - LukeShu 3y ago
    I don't think anyone is saying that there was no TAS in general in 2017, but that there was no TAS for the Wii U in 2017.
- Retr0id 3y ago
  Even with a microcontroller, doing frame-perfect inputs is tricky because you don't have anything to sync off of - even tapping into the vsync signal from the video output is an imperfect reference because there's no guarantee that the game engine is actually synced with it (although I have no knowledge of SMM, maybe it does work better than I expect)
  - a_t48 3y ago
    You can start off with a start input to unpause the game, for instance.
    - Retr0id 3y ago
      That doesn't solve the problem, in the general case (it might work acceptably well in practice, though)
      - ikiris 3y ago
        if your controller has such loose timing that you can't match a 10ms window reliably, you're doing something very wrong. '
        lmm 3y ago
        Match a 10ms window how far away from your last sync point? Every clock has a drift rate.
        themoonisachees 3y ago
        I get where you're going, but also consider the level is 17 seconds long. It's not unreasonable to think he just ran it a few times until the clocks decided to cooperate.
- braiamp 3y ago
  Except that many top players said it was very unlikely due the time it was uploaded and the availability of TAS methods at the time. The creator took a day to beat it, because not only couldn't sync inputs with the game engine current state, but also there's real rng in the trick.
- ufferop 3y ago
  The funny thing is if you watch the clear vid it actually looks really straightforward. The original purpose of the video was to coyly announce the TAS tool the maker created, but the video was mostly ignored because it looks like a regular clear vid. That’s how it so effectively accidentally flew under the radar. The level lacked a TAS label, and TASs are usually obvious and flashy. But then you play it and realize those jumps are insanely precise. Yes, frame perfect, but also mostly pixel perfect x,y precision. There is even RNG manipulation necessary to ensure a bomb is spawned from a note block in a specific direction. Streamers had already beaten it in chunks so it was theoretically possible for a human to do, but once people started offering monetary bounties the uploader felt it was time to let everyone in on the 7 year old joke.
- ufferop 3y ago
  > He's not really clear about how exactly he did it, but it's pretty easy to just take a controller cable, wire it into a microcontroller, and program inputs. The streamer featured in TFA, ThaBeast721, said that he and some other high profile streamers playing the level were contacted by the maker, whom many in the community knew prior and so there was chat history to authenticate the claim, and shown a video of the device breaking the level. Thab described the device as a “raspberry pi or arduino type device hooked up to an actual controller somehow” When the clear video failed to go viral the maker dropped the gag, and forgot about it until recently, because the device was a pain to use anyway. The maker said it took 3 months to upload the level. Something about the device causing the console to crash when programming the inputs. https://m.twitch.tv/thabeast721 https://m.twitch.tv/thabeast721
tech234a 3y ago
I’ve heard that people are still trying to attempt it before the deadline.
- tialaramex 3y ago
  Right, it's clearly not hard enough to be impossible for a human to do it which is one reason there was doubt prior to the confession. Thabeast was pretty close to mid-way I think, and he wasn't the person who'd spent most time attempting this.
- jmcgough 3y ago
  Yep, you can still people working on it here https://www.twitch.tv/directory/category/super-mario-maker https://www.twitch.tv/directory/category/super-mario-maker
  - PokemonNoGo 3y ago
    I see nothing there?
TJSomething 3y ago
Seems like it might still be worth trying to recording tool-assisted run for.
Zedseayou 3y ago
It was published on the 19th, this submission is just late
labster 3y ago
The Last Dance with Mario Jane, one more time to kill the pain
thaumasiotes 3y ago
> That final boss, Trimming the Herbs, has definitely turned out to be a hacked (TAS) level Has it? There's a confession, but this was an issue of major public significance (within a limited sphere). Do people never confess to things they didn't do?
- bspammer 3y ago
  According to a few high-profile members of the community (including people who previously insisted the level wasn't cheated), the level creator sent them a video of the TAS being used in practice.
anthomtb 3y ago
TAS: Tool Assisted Speedrun Took more googling than expected to figure that one out, probably should have gone with a GPT.

by makin 3y ago

BryantD 3y ago

Beat me to it! See https://www.nintendolife.com/news/2024/03/random-its-done-every-super-mario-maker-level-has-been-cleared-before-wii-us-online-shutdown https://www.nintendolife.com/news/2024/03/random-its-done-ev... for more.

permo-w 3y ago

interesting nonetheless

TillE 3y ago

That was always by far the most likely explanation, it was the general opinion of top-level SMM players. Something like 10 frame-perfect inputs with a lot of precise movement, it's just not plausible. He's not really clear about how exactly he did it, but it's pretty easy to just take a controller cable, wire it into a microcontroller, and program inputs. A lot of people were saying "there was no TAS in 2017", meaning I suppose there were no specific tools for emulator at the time, but that's just irrelevant when you can take a day or two to trial-and-error it.

bakugo 3y ago
I'm fairly sure the Wii U was already hacked by 2017, so he could've just played the inputs back on the console itself. Either that or just hack the game into thinking he cleared it when he didn't.
- pjerem 3y ago
  No need to hack anything, you just have to make a Bluetooth controller with the same characteristics than Nintendo’s controllers. They are pretty standard.
kevinventullo 3y ago
I mean tasvideos.org goes back to 2003: https://tasvideos.org/SiteHistory#2003 https://tasvideos.org/SiteHistory#2003
- LukeShu 3y ago
  I don't think anyone is saying that there was no TAS in general in 2017, but that there was no TAS for the Wii U in 2017.
Retr0id 3y ago
Even with a microcontroller, doing frame-perfect inputs is tricky because you don't have anything to sync off of - even tapping into the vsync signal from the video output is an imperfect reference because there's no guarantee that the game engine is actually synced with it (although I have no knowledge of SMM, maybe it does work better than I expect)
- a_t48 3y ago
  You can start off with a start input to unpause the game, for instance.
  - Retr0id 3y ago
    That doesn't solve the problem, in the general case (it might work acceptably well in practice, though)
    - ikiris 3y ago
      if your controller has such loose timing that you can't match a 10ms window reliably, you're doing something very wrong. '
      - lmm 3y ago
        Match a 10ms window how far away from your last sync point? Every clock has a drift rate.
        themoonisachees 3y ago
        I get where you're going, but also consider the level is 17 seconds long. It's not unreasonable to think he just ran it a few times until the clocks decided to cooperate.
braiamp 3y ago
Except that many top players said it was very unlikely due the time it was uploaded and the availability of TAS methods at the time. The creator took a day to beat it, because not only couldn't sync inputs with the game engine current state, but also there's real rng in the trick.
ufferop 3y ago
The funny thing is if you watch the clear vid it actually looks really straightforward. The original purpose of the video was to coyly announce the TAS tool the maker created, but the video was mostly ignored because it looks like a regular clear vid. That’s how it so effectively accidentally flew under the radar. The level lacked a TAS label, and TASs are usually obvious and flashy. But then you play it and realize those jumps are insanely precise. Yes, frame perfect, but also mostly pixel perfect x,y precision. There is even RNG manipulation necessary to ensure a bomb is spawned from a note block in a specific direction. Streamers had already beaten it in chunks so it was theoretically possible for a human to do, but once people started offering monetary bounties the uploader felt it was time to let everyone in on the 7 year old joke.
ufferop 3y ago
> He's not really clear about how exactly he did it, but it's pretty easy to just take a controller cable, wire it into a microcontroller, and program inputs. The streamer featured in TFA, ThaBeast721, said that he and some other high profile streamers playing the level were contacted by the maker, whom many in the community knew prior and so there was chat history to authenticate the claim, and shown a video of the device breaking the level. Thab described the device as a “raspberry pi or arduino type device hooked up to an actual controller somehow” When the clear video failed to go viral the maker dropped the gag, and forgot about it until recently, because the device was a pain to use anyway. The maker said it took 3 months to upload the level. Something about the device causing the console to crash when programming the inputs. https://m.twitch.tv/thabeast721 https://m.twitch.tv/thabeast721

tech234a 3y ago

I’ve heard that people are still trying to attempt it before the deadline.

tialaramex 3y ago
Right, it's clearly not hard enough to be impossible for a human to do it which is one reason there was doubt prior to the confession. Thabeast was pretty close to mid-way I think, and he wasn't the person who'd spent most time attempting this.
jmcgough 3y ago
Yep, you can still people working on it here https://www.twitch.tv/directory/category/super-mario-maker https://www.twitch.tv/directory/category/super-mario-maker
- PokemonNoGo 3y ago
  I see nothing there?

TJSomething 3y ago

Seems like it might still be worth trying to recording tool-assisted run for.

Zedseayou 3y ago

It was published on the 19th, this submission is just late

labster 3y ago

The Last Dance with Mario Jane, one more time to kill the pain

thaumasiotes 3y ago

> That final boss, Trimming the Herbs, has definitely turned out to be a hacked (TAS) level Has it? There's a confession, but this was an issue of major public significance (within a limited sphere). Do people never confess to things they didn't do?

bspammer 3y ago
According to a few high-profile members of the community (including people who previously insisted the level wasn't cheated), the level creator sent them a video of the TAS being used in practice.

anthomtb 3y ago

TAS: Tool Assisted Speedrun Took more googling than expected to figure that one out, probably should have gone with a GPT.