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What worries me as a green, is how we keep adding renewable energy to the mix without replacing the use of fossil fuels.

by rsolva 3y ago

defrost 3y ago
There is a real need to keep at reducing fossil fuel usage for sure. That said, in some small assuage to your worry there are large sectors that are transitioning to replacement of fossil fuels. Global scale mining operations, such as Australia's ~ one billion tonne per annum iron ore industry consume large quantities of fuel for trucks, trains, and electricity generation for shovels, loaders, crushers, conveyots, screens, etc. https://fortescue.com/what-we-do/green-energy-research/green-ammonia https://fortescue.com/what-we-do/green-energy-research/green... https://fortescue.com/news-and-media/news/2024/03/15/world-s-first-use-of-ammonia-as-a-marine-fuel-in-a-dual-fueled-ammonia-powered-vessel-in-the-port-of-singapore https://fortescue.com/news-and-media/news/2024/03/15/world-s... https://reneweconomy.com.au/fortescue-starts-work-on-world-first-infinity-train-a-regenerating-battery-on-rails/ https://reneweconomy.com.au/fortescue-starts-work-on-world-f... Infinity Train: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CuLrc1u43gU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CuLrc1u43gU
angiosperm 3y ago
Use of fossil fuels will fall off naturally as the cost of renewables continues on down the learning curve, radically undercutting them. Without the enormous subsidies fossil fuels still enjoy, they would have been undercut years ago.
IshKebab 3y ago
What do you mean? We are reducing fossil fuel usage. Look at the UK's grid. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-63976805.amp https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-63976805.amp
cinntaile 3y ago
It is replacing fossil fuels, look at the statistics.
sunshinesnacks 3y ago
Every MWh produced by new wind or solar is one less MWh produced by fossil fuels. CO2 reductions aren’t necessarily 1:1, but are usually very close. So, adding renewable energy is replacing fossil fuels, even if the fossil plants don’t immediately shut down. It’s a lot like replacing car trips with walking/biking/transit and then complaining that you still have a car.
- rsolva 3y ago
  I agree with your point, but my comment was about the situation here in Norway (which I should have made more clear). The overwhelming majority of electricity generated is from hydro power. We have not had the problem of having to little electricity, except for extremely dry years, but then we import electricity from Sweden and the rest of Europe. What we see now is that the data center industry lays claim to a lot of power generated in many regions, increasing the demand for electricity at an alarming pace. The same seems to be happening other places in Europe. We keep needing and using more electricity, without really moving away from fossil sources. And the renewable energy sources are far from clean to produce, wind and batteries require a lot of minerals and extractive processes that is highly polluting and Co2 expensive in other parts of the world. I do not know enough (yet) to be categorical in my claims, but I have started looking into the numbers, and from what I have seen so far, I'm only getting more worried about the path we are heading down.
  - sunshinesnacks 3y ago
    That’s fair. But a few things to note: - embedded CO2 in renewable gen is very low compared to fossil fuels - lithium is abundant and cobalt/nickel are not needed in most battery applications (and lithium may be replaced in the future, too) - waste from solar is trivial compared to things like municipal waste, coal ash. I think wind is similar, but I’m less sure - either way, recycling is improving - (in the US, at least) we have plenty of land for renewables, especially compared to things like corn crops used for transportation ethanol (a silly thing in my opinion) and pasture used for beef cattle (something there will likely be a lot less of in the future) Anything you find while looking into the numbers that disagrees with the above points is possibly outdated or just wrong.

What worries me as a green, is how we keep adding renewable energy to the mix without replacing the use of fossil fuels.

by rsolva 3y ago

What worries me as a green, is how we keep adding renewable energy to the mix without replacing the use of fossil fuels.

defrost 3y ago

There is a real need to keep at reducing fossil fuel usage for sure. That said, in some small assuage to your worry there are large sectors that are transitioning to replacement of fossil fuels. Global scale mining operations, such as Australia's ~ one billion tonne per annum iron ore industry consume large quantities of fuel for trucks, trains, and electricity generation for shovels, loaders, crushers, conveyots, screens, etc. https://fortescue.com/what-we-do/green-energy-research/green-ammonia https://fortescue.com/what-we-do/green-energy-research/green... https://fortescue.com/news-and-media/news/2024/03/15/world-s-first-use-of-ammonia-as-a-marine-fuel-in-a-dual-fueled-ammonia-powered-vessel-in-the-port-of-singapore https://fortescue.com/news-and-media/news/2024/03/15/world-s... https://reneweconomy.com.au/fortescue-starts-work-on-world-first-infinity-train-a-regenerating-battery-on-rails/ https://reneweconomy.com.au/fortescue-starts-work-on-world-f... Infinity Train: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CuLrc1u43gU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CuLrc1u43gU

angiosperm 3y ago

Use of fossil fuels will fall off naturally as the cost of renewables continues on down the learning curve, radically undercutting them. Without the enormous subsidies fossil fuels still enjoy, they would have been undercut years ago.

IshKebab 3y ago

What do you mean? We are reducing fossil fuel usage. Look at the UK's grid. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-63976805.amp https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-63976805.amp

cinntaile 3y ago

It is replacing fossil fuels, look at the statistics.

sunshinesnacks 3y ago

Every MWh produced by new wind or solar is one less MWh produced by fossil fuels. CO2 reductions aren’t necessarily 1:1, but are usually very close. So, adding renewable energy is replacing fossil fuels, even if the fossil plants don’t immediately shut down. It’s a lot like replacing car trips with walking/biking/transit and then complaining that you still have a car.

rsolva 3y ago
I agree with your point, but my comment was about the situation here in Norway (which I should have made more clear). The overwhelming majority of electricity generated is from hydro power. We have not had the problem of having to little electricity, except for extremely dry years, but then we import electricity from Sweden and the rest of Europe. What we see now is that the data center industry lays claim to a lot of power generated in many regions, increasing the demand for electricity at an alarming pace. The same seems to be happening other places in Europe. We keep needing and using more electricity, without really moving away from fossil sources. And the renewable energy sources are far from clean to produce, wind and batteries require a lot of minerals and extractive processes that is highly polluting and Co2 expensive in other parts of the world. I do not know enough (yet) to be categorical in my claims, but I have started looking into the numbers, and from what I have seen so far, I'm only getting more worried about the path we are heading down.
- sunshinesnacks 3y ago
  That’s fair. But a few things to note: - embedded CO2 in renewable gen is very low compared to fossil fuels - lithium is abundant and cobalt/nickel are not needed in most battery applications (and lithium may be replaced in the future, too) - waste from solar is trivial compared to things like municipal waste, coal ash. I think wind is similar, but I’m less sure - either way, recycling is improving - (in the US, at least) we have plenty of land for renewables, especially compared to things like corn crops used for transportation ethanol (a silly thing in my opinion) and pasture used for beef cattle (something there will likely be a lot less of in the future) Anything you find while looking into the numbers that disagrees with the above points is possibly outdated or just wrong.