3 ms·
They are removing all the old dams on the Klamath River. Company that ended up owning them considers them a white elephant because the revenue from power isn't
by Gibbon1 3y ago
They are removing all the old dams on the Klamath River. Company that ended up owning them considers them a white elephant because the revenue from power isn't enough to pay for needed refurbishment, operating costs, and insurance.
- sumtechguy 3y agoThis is the real reason most of these are removed. No one wants a 100+ year old dam that need several million dollars worth of work and the ROI is negative. So they remove them and everyone is happy. Most of the ones that are removed are well past their use by sticker date.
- bobthepanda 3y agoEven according to the owners, the Klamath River dams represent less than 2% of the power generated by that electric company. https://www.opb.org/article/2022/11/18/klamath-river-dam-removal-southern-oregon-dams-northern-california-drought/ https://www.opb.org/article/2022/11/18/klamath-river-dam-rem...
- Gibbon1 3y agoI've been meaning to compare the energy produced by those dams to a similar area of solar panels. Square miles of reservoir to similar square miles of solar farm. The Three Gorges Dam covers 419 sq miles. Produces 100 X 10^12 watt hours a year. Internet: 1,000 megawatt-hours per year requires, on average, 2.8 acres for the solar panels. Calc: 2.3 X 10^11 watt-hours per square mile. 100 X 10^12 wh / 2.3 X 10^11 wh/mile2 => 437 square miles. The Chinese done goofed.
- Ekaros 3y agoForgetting the slight thing that you might want to have electricity at night too...
- samus 3y agoGrid-level batteries and pumped hydro (which only requires a height differential, not a riverbed) have been a thing for quite a while now.
- Ekaros 3y agoSo where exactly do you find the hundreds of square miles of space to fit pumped hydro to match this scale? Or even tens square miles with thousand meter drop height? And if that was so easy and cheap, why isn't it already build? Or grid level batteries storing 140 GWh for even intra-day storage...
- samus 3y agoAdmittedly pumped hydro can't be scaled up that much. However, the few places that are suitable are very well appreciated and likely won't ever be dismantled like these dams. For grid-level batteries, absolute space efficiency is not critical, so they allow a wider range of battery types to be used. Prices are rushing down. They are being deployed on such a massive scale that many new gas powerplant projects get cancelled.
- Gibbon1 3y agoBedtime is 7:30 pm Comrade Ekaros.
- bobthepanda 3y agoI mean, Three Gorges opened in 2012, when solar panels were more expensive and leas efficient; and the Chinese are the primary reason why they are so cheap and efficient today.
- seanmcdirmid 3y agoThree Gorges comes with its own battery setup. They can basically generate electricity on demand from that battery, assuming no drought. You don’t get that with wind or solar without separate battery setup. That battery could even be the three gorges reservoir itself if you can pump water back up (not sure if they have a bottom reservoir for that).
- bobthepanda 3y agoDrought has hit China very hard recently. The problem is that some amount of water does have to flow through the Three Gorges since it is a major transportation artery and source of drinking water.
- seanmcdirmid 3y agoDrinking water isn’t a major use case, but water for farming is, south China gets enough rain at least that drought isn’t so common (for now), but definitely not unheard of since it happened in 2022, see: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/aug/22/china-drought-causes-yangtze-river-to-dry-up-sparking-shortage-of-hydropower https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/aug/22/china-drought-...
- bobthepanda 3y agoFrom that article: > The Yangtze is the world’s third largest river, providing drinking water to more than 400 million Chinese people, and is the most vital waterway to China’s economy.