4 ms·

I used 8GB RAM till recently and I've found it more and more untenable. The primary issue is the browser. Even now on 16GB I restart Firefox every couple of day

I used 8GB RAM till recently and I've found it more and more untenable. The primary issue is the browser. Even now on 16GB I restart Firefox every couple of days. But other things also eat RAM like crazy Running Emacs/Cider I'd have to kill other apps and reboot my REPL a couple times a day. Emacs would also leak memory and need a restart every couple of days

yjftsjthsd-h 3y ago
Really? I can only hold one firefox session at a time in 8GB of RAM, but I've always assumed that's because I keep an unreasonable number of active+background tabs open.
grimgrin 3y ago
i wish firefox had more granularity with its tab unloading feature. one method is restarting browser. but by default it’ll unload tabs if you’re low on memory. you can force em in about:unloads (hint- about:about if you ever forget) i wrote a simple firefox extension that unloads em all with a button click, but it’s no different than restarting ff or spamming clicks in :unloads
- sitkack 3y ago
  We already know the solution. We run the browser in Wasm inside the browser. That way it only has one tab open and that tab is doing 99% of its work inside of a wasm env. I thought firefox would ship new versions of firefox inside of firefox at some point. I guess that point is still in the future. This of course is how electron should work as well. A canvas only frame that loads whatever rendering system you want, which could be a browser, or it could be Unreal engine.
  - ale42 3y ago
    Isn't this what SDL (https://www.libsdl.org/ https://www.libsdl.org/) is for? Some cross-platform (and pretty light) hardware abstraction where you can have a canvas, do 3D, audio, whatever...
  - imiric 3y ago
    I can't tell if this is sarcasm or not, but assuming it's not... How many levels of abstraction do we need to run software reliably? The fact that browsers have effectively become operating systems should be worrying enough. No wonder we have all these fantasy projects that take us back to when our computing environments were actually pleasant to use. I would partly blame the invasive tracking and needless complexity of modern OSs for that, but the ever growing software layers around hardware makes no sense at all. We should question any such design decision, and strive to simplify this ball of complexity instead.
- adhamsalama 3y ago
  Try Sidebery extension.
- beagle3 3y ago
  There’s AutoTabDiscard which lets you set a timeout and other rules for when to discard.
  - user_7832 3y ago
    Is AutoTabDiscard still helpful/necessary with whatever automatic stuff Chrome/Firefox does nowadays? I run a lot of tabs (100s-1000s) and this sounds potentially very helpful if it does something beyond what the browser automatically does.
    - beagle3 3y ago
      I think Firefox will delay loading on session resume (that is, if you restart Firefox, tabs will not load until you actually switch to them),but will not unload anything automatically - so if you open 200 tabs between restarts and keep them open (which I sometimes do, for a week or two until I close them) it makes a difference.
      - grimgrin 3y ago
        If you toggle this it will automatically unload, thought I'm not sure how low memory has to get before it triggers: browser.tabs.unloadOnLowMemory In my original comment above I wrongly assumed it _was_ on by default
persnickety 3y ago
12GiB and copious swap. 4 profiles open with 50-100 tabs loaded at any time. The only problem is the accumulation of CPU use from web apps. Consider adding more swap space so that older tabs have an out-of-the-way place to stay.
cabby 3y ago
'Auto Tab Discard' was a game changer for me using firefox. I was about to upgrade to a 64gb laptop.
- contrarian1234 3y ago
  it helps but strangely doesn't eliminate the problem entirely
  - cabby 3y ago
    Perhaps I don't see it on 32gb but can relate with cider/emacs.
prmoustache 3y ago
I guess the primary issue is the chair-->keyboard interface. The fact that browsers can open unlimited number of tabs doesn't mean you don't have to do a little housekeeping. Plenty of people still use systems with 4GB and lower and it works fine as long as the number of tabs they open is limited.
- contrarian1234 3y ago
  The primary issue is that browser developers are people that can afford kitted out Macbook pros so the system isn't designed to scale to small/weak systems :)) I don't believe a browser couldn't be designed to have a small RAM footprint. All my tabs could be suspended and saved to disk when in the background (and not spinning any tasks). They can be read back into RAM near instantly when I tab back to them
  - nolist_policy 3y ago
    No, Firefox and/or raspberryos just not well engineered for this usecase. My Chromebook with 8Gb ram has dozens of tabs and web apps open in Chrome, runs one VM with Android and another VM with Linux in turn running Firefox and more. All without breaking a sweat.
    - layer8 3y ago
      I run Firefox on 8 GB without any trouble whatsoever. But I also rarely open more than a dozen tabs.
      - beagle3 3y ago
        I use Firefox on an 8GB, early 2013 MBP, with hundreds of tabs and an extension, AutoTabDiscard that unloads/suspends them after a couple of hours. Works beautifully. I have to restart the computer about once a month because of Catalina bugs, but Firefox is super stable.
        3y ago
safety1st 3y ago
[flagged]
graemep 3y ago
NoScript and only turn on JS when required, and only for the site itself. Hugely reduces memory requirements

yjftsjthsd-h 3y ago

Really? I can only hold one firefox session at a time in 8GB of RAM, but I've always assumed that's because I keep an unreasonable number of active+background tabs open.

grimgrin 3y ago

i wish firefox had more granularity with its tab unloading feature. one method is restarting browser. but by default it’ll unload tabs if you’re low on memory. you can force em in about:unloads (hint- about:about if you ever forget) i wrote a simple firefox extension that unloads em all with a button click, but it’s no different than restarting ff or spamming clicks in :unloads

sitkack 3y ago
We already know the solution. We run the browser in Wasm inside the browser. That way it only has one tab open and that tab is doing 99% of its work inside of a wasm env. I thought firefox would ship new versions of firefox inside of firefox at some point. I guess that point is still in the future. This of course is how electron should work as well. A canvas only frame that loads whatever rendering system you want, which could be a browser, or it could be Unreal engine.
- ale42 3y ago
  Isn't this what SDL (https://www.libsdl.org/ https://www.libsdl.org/) is for? Some cross-platform (and pretty light) hardware abstraction where you can have a canvas, do 3D, audio, whatever...
- imiric 3y ago
  I can't tell if this is sarcasm or not, but assuming it's not... How many levels of abstraction do we need to run software reliably? The fact that browsers have effectively become operating systems should be worrying enough. No wonder we have all these fantasy projects that take us back to when our computing environments were actually pleasant to use. I would partly blame the invasive tracking and needless complexity of modern OSs for that, but the ever growing software layers around hardware makes no sense at all. We should question any such design decision, and strive to simplify this ball of complexity instead.
adhamsalama 3y ago
Try Sidebery extension.
beagle3 3y ago
There’s AutoTabDiscard which lets you set a timeout and other rules for when to discard.
- user_7832 3y ago
  Is AutoTabDiscard still helpful/necessary with whatever automatic stuff Chrome/Firefox does nowadays? I run a lot of tabs (100s-1000s) and this sounds potentially very helpful if it does something beyond what the browser automatically does.
  - beagle3 3y ago
    I think Firefox will delay loading on session resume (that is, if you restart Firefox, tabs will not load until you actually switch to them),but will not unload anything automatically - so if you open 200 tabs between restarts and keep them open (which I sometimes do, for a week or two until I close them) it makes a difference.
    - grimgrin 3y ago
      If you toggle this it will automatically unload, thought I'm not sure how low memory has to get before it triggers: browser.tabs.unloadOnLowMemory In my original comment above I wrongly assumed it _was_ on by default

persnickety 3y ago

12GiB and copious swap. 4 profiles open with 50-100 tabs loaded at any time. The only problem is the accumulation of CPU use from web apps. Consider adding more swap space so that older tabs have an out-of-the-way place to stay.

cabby 3y ago

'Auto Tab Discard' was a game changer for me using firefox. I was about to upgrade to a 64gb laptop.

contrarian1234 3y ago
it helps but strangely doesn't eliminate the problem entirely
- cabby 3y ago
  Perhaps I don't see it on 32gb but can relate with cider/emacs.

prmoustache 3y ago

I guess the primary issue is the chair-->keyboard interface. The fact that browsers can open unlimited number of tabs doesn't mean you don't have to do a little housekeeping. Plenty of people still use systems with 4GB and lower and it works fine as long as the number of tabs they open is limited.

contrarian1234 3y ago
The primary issue is that browser developers are people that can afford kitted out Macbook pros so the system isn't designed to scale to small/weak systems :)) I don't believe a browser couldn't be designed to have a small RAM footprint. All my tabs could be suspended and saved to disk when in the background (and not spinning any tasks). They can be read back into RAM near instantly when I tab back to them
- nolist_policy 3y ago
  No, Firefox and/or raspberryos just not well engineered for this usecase. My Chromebook with 8Gb ram has dozens of tabs and web apps open in Chrome, runs one VM with Android and another VM with Linux in turn running Firefox and more. All without breaking a sweat.
  - layer8 3y ago
    I run Firefox on 8 GB without any trouble whatsoever. But I also rarely open more than a dozen tabs.
    - beagle3 3y ago
      I use Firefox on an 8GB, early 2013 MBP, with hundreds of tabs and an extension, AutoTabDiscard that unloads/suspends them after a couple of hours. Works beautifully. I have to restart the computer about once a month because of Catalina bugs, but Firefox is super stable.
      - 3y ago

safety1st 3y ago

[flagged]

graemep 3y ago

NoScript and only turn on JS when required, and only for the site itself. Hugely reduces memory requirements