4 ms·
The alternative is certain death so not a lot to choose from
by thefounder 3y ago
The alternative is certain death so not a lot to choose from
- Rinzler89 3y agoAll death is certain. And taxes.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- kerkeslager 3y agoDisagree. The "choose life at any quality of life" ideology causes immense suffering. Ideally in the long run, this is a step in the direction of keeping people alive with a higher quality of life, but that's unlikely to be this first person's experience.
- acchow 3y agoDoctors (and society) should not be encouraging this mentality. But individuals surely have the freedom to think like this and make decisions accordingly.
- hsbauauvhabzb 3y agoDon’t many religions encourage the complete opposite mentality? Shouldn’t they be censored also?
- kerkeslager 3y agoI don't think censorship is a necessary part of addressing this problem.
- hsbauauvhabzb 3y agoParent poster suggested censoring doctors..
- kerkeslager 3y agoParent poster did not suggest censoring doctors. You're making a very big leap from "doctors should not be encouraging this" to "we should not allow doctors to encourage this".
- hsbauauvhabzb 3y agoSo why say anything if it’s just an opinion if not a call to action seeking to censor certain opinions? And my comment likened both, so to suggest the intent of the word censoring is somehow different is semantic nitpicking rather than any productive discourse.
- kerkeslager 3y ago> So why say anything if it’s just an opinion if not a call to action seeking to censor certain opinions? Why not? I could make an argument that cultural change happens through conversations like this, but honestly I think people are just intrinsically motivated to share their opinions whether it makes any difference or not. > And my comment likened both, so to suggest the intent of the word censoring is somehow different is semantic nitpicking rather than any productive discourse. The difference between censoring someone and disagreeing with their opinion is NOT a nitpicky detail. It's literally one of the major differences between totalitarianism and democracy. The position that censorship is the only way to get people to stop saying things you disagree with, is an absurd, extremist position.
- dr8eirkif7 3y agoWhy? My doctor's job is to give me health advice and treatment not moral advice. And it's none of society's business so really they shouldn't be chiming in anyway.
- LeifCarrotson 3y agoSure, but is a low quality life worse than oblivion? Even if you're not 25 and healthy and wealthy and happy, I think life is still worth living. Plus, if the suffering experienced by this patient helps cause someone else (or many someones else for centuries to come) to have a higher quality of life, one person's suffering can buy a lot of QALYs. Alternatively if as my mother tells me, I'm doomed to an eternity of unimaginable physical and psychological torture by supernaturally powerful fallen angelic beings with complete control of my entire sensorium, even a few more minutes of being hooked up to a hospital bed with doctors trying to make things better are preferable to that!
- mxkopy 3y agoThis viewpoint comes about from a lack of empathy/knowledge of the type of pain that would want someone to seek death. As a general rule of thumb, trying to decide someone’s own stream of consciousness is assholeish behavior.
- kerkeslager 3y ago> Sure, but is a low quality life worse than oblivion? Unequivocally yes. I think you are drastically underestimating how bad a life can get. > Plus, if the suffering experienced by this patient helps cause someone else (or many someones else for centuries to come) to have a higher quality of life, one person's suffering can buy a lot of QALYs. Exactly, that's why I'm arguing that this person's choice is brave.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- macNchz 3y ago> Sure, but is a low quality life worse than oblivion? In my opinion having had a firsthand view of what life with major illness, disability, and suffering can be like, absolutely yes. For an excellent dive into this topic, I highly recommend the book Being Mortal by Atul Gawande.
- 3D30497420 3y agoI'd wager such choices are highly personal, and different people will weigh things differently. I've seen quotes from people undergoing dangerous and highly experimental treatments stating that they felt happy to help medicine learn, even at significant cost to themselves. The patient in this case said much the same. Nonetheless, I do generally agree with you. I've seen several articles about how doctors die very differently than most people (they often have DNRs and far fewer end-of-life interventions).
- lr1970 3y ago> The alternative is certain death so not a lot to choose from. Human kidney transplants (both cadaveric and from a living donor) have been a common operation for many years.
- gpm 3y agoThe article addresses this. The patient previously had a human kidney transplant in 2018, which failed sometime in (reading slightly between the lines) 2023, as well as having other health issues. Another human Kidney wouldn't have been made available to him for five to six years, and his doctors didn't believe that he would live that long. I still think it counts as brave though, certainly not an easy choice.
- quasarj 3y agoIf you actually read the article, it goes into details about why he's ineligible for a normal transplant and also why his dialysis is failing.