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It absolutely is a failure of FOSS. It was supposed to be viral, leading to greater software freedom for all. The strategy has been countered and subverted by r

It absolutely is a failure of FOSS. It was supposed to be viral, leading to greater software freedom for all. The strategy has been countered and subverted by running FOSS on servers people don’t control. Half the world’s communication being under the control of one company with a dictator is hardly a success.

rglullis 3y ago
Are we arguing over "freedom from" and "freedom to"? I don't like that so many people preferred to go for a closed solution and I certainly don't like virtual monopolies, but people are there out of their own volition. 30 years ago, there was no real alternative for Windows on the desktop. All productivity tools were closed. Today, people buy iPhones and sign up to Instagram/TikTok because they want to. What would you propose, to have Stallman pointing a gun to everyone who didn't attend a install fest?
- Dylan16807 3y ago
  > 30 years ago But they were comparing to "10 years ago. Or 20." > What would you propose, to have Stallman pointing a gun to everyone who didn't attend a install fest? If I can propose wild things, then I'll propose that something forces big hosting companies to share their code. And data freedom is an important issue that has a huge overlap with software freedom. I like the EU's movement toward forcing export and interoperability for big entities.
  - rglullis 3y ago
    > But they were comparing to "10 years ago. Or 20." Linux only became a viable desktop around 2010. Blender was open sourced in the early 2000. StarOffice was a viable alternative to MS Office 2003.
    - Dylan16807 3y ago
      Yes...? The more things you list that are before the year(s) they used as reference points, the more you support their argument that software freedom peaked a while ago and has been going downhill in major ways in more recent years.
      - rglullis 3y ago
        My point is that I can continue with the timeline, and it will trend towards more freedom, not less: - Google's original Android was more open than any of the alternatives. And even if Google went on the direction of closing Android and putting functionality around its Play Services, there are a good number of alternatives that build on Android and make it completely free. The number of devices that can run LineageOS/Murena/Linux is going up, not down. - All social media was closed, and now we are seeing an explosion of open source projects. The number of people using it is going up, not down. - Self-hosting software is easier than ever. I fail to see any time interval where the availability of free software has been reduced. All it takes is a motivated individual.

rglullis 3y ago

Are we arguing over "freedom from" and "freedom to"? I don't like that so many people preferred to go for a closed solution and I certainly don't like virtual monopolies, but people are there out of their own volition. 30 years ago, there was no real alternative for Windows on the desktop. All productivity tools were closed. Today, people buy iPhones and sign up to Instagram/TikTok because they want to. What would you propose, to have Stallman pointing a gun to everyone who didn't attend a install fest?

Dylan16807 3y ago
> 30 years ago But they were comparing to "10 years ago. Or 20." > What would you propose, to have Stallman pointing a gun to everyone who didn't attend a install fest? If I can propose wild things, then I'll propose that something forces big hosting companies to share their code. And data freedom is an important issue that has a huge overlap with software freedom. I like the EU's movement toward forcing export and interoperability for big entities.
- rglullis 3y ago
  > But they were comparing to "10 years ago. Or 20." Linux only became a viable desktop around 2010. Blender was open sourced in the early 2000. StarOffice was a viable alternative to MS Office 2003.
  - Dylan16807 3y ago
    Yes...? The more things you list that are before the year(s) they used as reference points, the more you support their argument that software freedom peaked a while ago and has been going downhill in major ways in more recent years.
    - rglullis 3y ago
      My point is that I can continue with the timeline, and it will trend towards more freedom, not less: - Google's original Android was more open than any of the alternatives. And even if Google went on the direction of closing Android and putting functionality around its Play Services, there are a good number of alternatives that build on Android and make it completely free. The number of devices that can run LineageOS/Murena/Linux is going up, not down. - All social media was closed, and now we are seeing an explosion of open source projects. The number of people using it is going up, not down. - Self-hosting software is easier than ever. I fail to see any time interval where the availability of free software has been reduced. All it takes is a motivated individual.