4 ms·

I don't use smart watches but I have an example on the trackers. Tile created trackers and every so often I get an annoying popup > ~"Tile has been using your

I don't use smart watches but I have an example on the trackers. Tile created trackers and every so often I get an annoying popup > ~"Tile has been using your location, do you want to stop this?" Apple then created a competitor product, 'AirTags', but their product does not have these popups. This is anti-competitive because Apple bypass the restrictions they made on their platform for their product that their competitive have to follow.

lotsofpulp 3y ago
I would bet most people already know using an Apple product and agreeing to the Find My and other terms in intial setup means Apple is always tracking you. So a pop up from Apple saying that Apple is tracking you makes no sense, it is already known, and accepted by the device user. Someone other than Apple tracking you, however, is notable, and so people (at least I) would always want to know if someone other than Apple is tracking me via software operating on the device.
- Draiken 3y ago
  Why? Because a user allowed them to track them when using one app, it doesn't mean should extend automatically that to every app they ever develop. This is clearly Apple apps being treated differently.
  - lotsofpulp 3y ago
    >Why? Because a user allowed them to track them when using one app, it doesn't mean should extend automatically that to every app they ever develop. The whole point of the notification is to notify you when an entity is tracking you. If you already know Apple is tracking you, then it does not make a difference if Apple's App A or App B or App C is tracking you, it is all Apple.
    - Draiken 3y ago
      I must be missing something because that's simply not true in Android. I can individually grant/revoke tracking permissions for each app. I assumed the same would be true for iPhone. For me it makes no sense to make it only about the entity. It's like saying "the US government is tracking you", instead of saying "the US government is tracking you through this app right now"
  - positus 3y ago
    I'm pretty sure you're asked whether or not you want to enable Location Services when going through Setup Assistant during the initial device provisioning.
- InsomniacL 3y ago
  I would bet most people buying tracking devices know those tracking devices are tracking location. The point is Apple as a platform provider made something (location without warning) on the platform available to themselves as a platform user (Airtags), that they didn't make available to other platform users who are their competitors (Tile).
- jchw 3y ago
  But, some Apple apps do in fact tell you that. This actually does make sense, too. When you collect information for one specific reason, it doesn't mean the user has granted you consent to use it for other purposes carte blanche. One might retort "Fine, but then granting that permission once is enough." Apparently, that is only true sometimes, and only for Apple.
cpuguy83 3y ago
Not really defending Apple here since they do have an unfair advantage over on these trackers. But even the weather app triggers that same location pop up.
jorvi 3y ago
Longest-running example is Apple Maps displaying mapping on the lockscreen and having special bespoke turn-by-turn notifications, using a private API to which no other navigation app has access to. The other big one is Apple muscling itself into the music streaming market by converting Music.app into Apple Music. In a fair world, Apple would have been required to show a pop-up that offered Spotify, Apple Music, Tidal, Deezer etc. in a random order. You can’t unmake an omelette, so I feel Apple should be forced to pay billions to these competing services as recompense.
- mock-possum 3y ago
  RIP lala.com, my first and favorite music streaming service - bought out by apple and summarily closed with previous users encouraged to migrate to Apple Music. I think I got a $15 credit or something. As if I needed a reason to further resent Apple.
- mattl 3y ago
  > by converting Music.app into Apple Music Apple made iTunes (which already supported Apple Music) into a dedicated Music app, and offloaded some of the other stuff iTunes could do into separate apps and the Finder.
  - jorvi 3y ago
    I’m mostly talking about iOS. Mac market share isn’t too huge, but iPhone market share in the US (where Apple Music exploded in user count immediately after) is. Ordinarily I hate market interventions like this, but with iOS+Android being a duopoly, we don’t have a free market so special rules start to apply.
- positus 3y ago
  People know how to use the App Store. If they want Spotify they know how to find it. It is by no means unfair, immoral, or unethical for a company to prefer and promote their own products. On a personal note, I never in my life want to see advertisements for third-party software by default.
ssully 3y ago
Not saying this to defend Apple, but last week I had that same location tracking pop up for Apples Weather app.
- rezonant 3y ago
  Yes but that doesn't distract from the airtags issue, because airtags are supported by the OS itself, not a specific app. Good on Apple for applying the same rules to it's apps, but not so good on Apple for not giving Tile a way to work in the same manner as airtags.
  - shagie 3y ago
    https://www.macrumors.com/2021/05/04/tile-ceo-on-competition-from-apple/ https://www.macrumors.com/2021/05/04/tile-ceo-on-competition... > > The main points of differentiation of AirTags vis a vis Tile are enabled by platform capabilities that we don't have access to. > Apple has, in fact, launched the Find My network that gives third-party accessories some of the same access that AirTags have, and Find My network accessories will be able to access the U1 chip in the iPhone 11 and 12 models much like the AirTags, but Tile won't be able to use the Find My network unless it abandons its own app and infrastructure, which it is likely unwilling to do. > Prober said that Tile has been "seeking to access" the U1 chip since its introduction in the iPhone , and has been denied. --- Here's the developer docs for accessing the U1 chip https://developer.apple.com/documentation/nearbyinteraction/implementing_spatial_interactions_with_third-party_accessories https://developer.apple.com/documentation/nearbyinteraction/... ... and a presentation on the use of the U1 chip with 3rd party accessories at WWDC 2021 https://developer.apple.com/videos/play/wwdc2021/10165/ https://developer.apple.com/videos/play/wwdc2021/10165/
    - rezonant 3y ago
      This is different. This is Apple saying use our network, not allowing Tile to use their own.
      - shagie 3y ago
HumblyTossed 3y ago
Also, Apple licenses out the Find My tech to other trackers. But... you don't get the new precision finding features.
- shagie 3y ago
  > But... you don't get the new precision finding features. https://developer.apple.com/videos/play/wwdc2021/10165/ https://developer.apple.com/videos/play/wwdc2021/10165/ appears to suggest differently.
  - HumblyTossed 3y ago
    Maybe it's new because existing ones that work with Find My cannot.
    - shagie 3y ago
      They have to buy the chips (and integrate them) from a vendor like https://www.st.com/en/wireless-connectivity/ultra-wideband-products.html https://www.st.com/en/wireless-connectivity/ultra-wideband-p... or https://www.nxp.com/applications/enabling-technologies/connectivity/ultra-wideband-uwb:UWB https://www.nxp.com/applications/enabling-technologies/conne... It isn't something that any device can do by default. For example, Samsung integrated it into their Smart Tags ( https://www.androidpolice.com/samsung-smarttag-2-uwb/ https://www.androidpolice.com/samsung-smarttag-2-uwb/ )

lotsofpulp 3y ago

I would bet most people already know using an Apple product and agreeing to the Find My and other terms in intial setup means Apple is always tracking you. So a pop up from Apple saying that Apple is tracking you makes no sense, it is already known, and accepted by the device user. Someone other than Apple tracking you, however, is notable, and so people (at least I) would always want to know if someone other than Apple is tracking me via software operating on the device.

Draiken 3y ago
Why? Because a user allowed them to track them when using one app, it doesn't mean should extend automatically that to every app they ever develop. This is clearly Apple apps being treated differently.
- lotsofpulp 3y ago
  >Why? Because a user allowed them to track them when using one app, it doesn't mean should extend automatically that to every app they ever develop. The whole point of the notification is to notify you when an entity is tracking you. If you already know Apple is tracking you, then it does not make a difference if Apple's App A or App B or App C is tracking you, it is all Apple.
  - Draiken 3y ago
    I must be missing something because that's simply not true in Android. I can individually grant/revoke tracking permissions for each app. I assumed the same would be true for iPhone. For me it makes no sense to make it only about the entity. It's like saying "the US government is tracking you", instead of saying "the US government is tracking you through this app right now"
- positus 3y ago
  I'm pretty sure you're asked whether or not you want to enable Location Services when going through Setup Assistant during the initial device provisioning.
InsomniacL 3y ago
I would bet most people buying tracking devices know those tracking devices are tracking location. The point is Apple as a platform provider made something (location without warning) on the platform available to themselves as a platform user (Airtags), that they didn't make available to other platform users who are their competitors (Tile).
jchw 3y ago
But, some Apple apps do in fact tell you that. This actually does make sense, too. When you collect information for one specific reason, it doesn't mean the user has granted you consent to use it for other purposes carte blanche. One might retort "Fine, but then granting that permission once is enough." Apparently, that is only true sometimes, and only for Apple.

cpuguy83 3y ago

Not really defending Apple here since they do have an unfair advantage over on these trackers. But even the weather app triggers that same location pop up.

jorvi 3y ago

Longest-running example is Apple Maps displaying mapping on the lockscreen and having special bespoke turn-by-turn notifications, using a private API to which no other navigation app has access to. The other big one is Apple muscling itself into the music streaming market by converting Music.app into Apple Music. In a fair world, Apple would have been required to show a pop-up that offered Spotify, Apple Music, Tidal, Deezer etc. in a random order. You can’t unmake an omelette, so I feel Apple should be forced to pay billions to these competing services as recompense.

mock-possum 3y ago
RIP lala.com, my first and favorite music streaming service - bought out by apple and summarily closed with previous users encouraged to migrate to Apple Music. I think I got a $15 credit or something. As if I needed a reason to further resent Apple.
mattl 3y ago
> by converting Music.app into Apple Music Apple made iTunes (which already supported Apple Music) into a dedicated Music app, and offloaded some of the other stuff iTunes could do into separate apps and the Finder.
- jorvi 3y ago
  I’m mostly talking about iOS. Mac market share isn’t too huge, but iPhone market share in the US (where Apple Music exploded in user count immediately after) is. Ordinarily I hate market interventions like this, but with iOS+Android being a duopoly, we don’t have a free market so special rules start to apply.
positus 3y ago
People know how to use the App Store. If they want Spotify they know how to find it. It is by no means unfair, immoral, or unethical for a company to prefer and promote their own products. On a personal note, I never in my life want to see advertisements for third-party software by default.

ssully 3y ago

Not saying this to defend Apple, but last week I had that same location tracking pop up for Apples Weather app.

rezonant 3y ago
Yes but that doesn't distract from the airtags issue, because airtags are supported by the OS itself, not a specific app. Good on Apple for applying the same rules to it's apps, but not so good on Apple for not giving Tile a way to work in the same manner as airtags.
- shagie 3y ago
  https://www.macrumors.com/2021/05/04/tile-ceo-on-competition-from-apple/ https://www.macrumors.com/2021/05/04/tile-ceo-on-competition... > > The main points of differentiation of AirTags vis a vis Tile are enabled by platform capabilities that we don't have access to. > Apple has, in fact, launched the Find My network that gives third-party accessories some of the same access that AirTags have, and Find My network accessories will be able to access the U1 chip in the iPhone 11 and 12 models much like the AirTags, but Tile won't be able to use the Find My network unless it abandons its own app and infrastructure, which it is likely unwilling to do. > Prober said that Tile has been "seeking to access" the U1 chip since its introduction in the iPhone , and has been denied. --- Here's the developer docs for accessing the U1 chip https://developer.apple.com/documentation/nearbyinteraction/implementing_spatial_interactions_with_third-party_accessories https://developer.apple.com/documentation/nearbyinteraction/... ... and a presentation on the use of the U1 chip with 3rd party accessories at WWDC 2021 https://developer.apple.com/videos/play/wwdc2021/10165/ https://developer.apple.com/videos/play/wwdc2021/10165/
  - rezonant 3y ago
    This is different. This is Apple saying use our network, not allowing Tile to use their own.
    - shagie 3y ago

HumblyTossed 3y ago

Also, Apple licenses out the Find My tech to other trackers. But... you don't get the new precision finding features.

shagie 3y ago
> But... you don't get the new precision finding features. https://developer.apple.com/videos/play/wwdc2021/10165/ https://developer.apple.com/videos/play/wwdc2021/10165/ appears to suggest differently.
- HumblyTossed 3y ago
  Maybe it's new because existing ones that work with Find My cannot.
  - shagie 3y ago
    They have to buy the chips (and integrate them) from a vendor like https://www.st.com/en/wireless-connectivity/ultra-wideband-products.html https://www.st.com/en/wireless-connectivity/ultra-wideband-p... or https://www.nxp.com/applications/enabling-technologies/connectivity/ultra-wideband-uwb:UWB https://www.nxp.com/applications/enabling-technologies/conne... It isn't something that any device can do by default. For example, Samsung integrated it into their Smart Tags ( https://www.androidpolice.com/samsung-smarttag-2-uwb/ https://www.androidpolice.com/samsung-smarttag-2-uwb/ )