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> 3. Every single group chat that I use on a day-to-day basis has a non iPhone participant. The biggest argument against the way apple treats SMS vs iMessage I

> 3. Every single group chat that I use on a day-to-day basis has a non iPhone participant. The biggest argument against the way apple treats SMS vs iMessage I see is people feel ostracized for having green bubbles. I just don't understand why this rises to anti-trust.

vundercind 3y ago
What is this “having green bubbles” stuff? My messages are green on threads with Android users, to indicate the capabilities of the messages I am sending. Not theirs. I don’t even know how to tell who’s on what in a mixed-ecosystem thread.
- airstrike 3y ago
  messages from Android users show up as green to iOS users in group chats with mixed users, so everyone invariably makes fun of them / complains about "the person with the green bubble"
  - vundercind 3y ago
    Do you have an iPhone? I do and my bubbles are green on group chats that involve Android users. Theirs look the same as everyone else’s.
    - airstrike 3y ago
      yes, and if we're in a chat with Bob Android, we will blame Bob for forcing all of us to be in this inferior chat that's green ewww or so the argument goes
    - harkinian 3y ago
      The bubbles are green if you talk to someone with an Android, and they're blue if you talk to someone with an iPhone. People simplify this by saying "you have blue bubbles."
  - ssully 3y ago
    That isn’t how it works. Your own bubbles are green, all the “external” people in the chat have “regular” colors. Ex: I am using dark mode, so their bubbles show as dark for me, and mine are green.
  - jimbokun 3y ago
    Green Bubble Bellied Sneetches
  - vmladenov 3y ago
    Or you could show an ounce of maturity and just move to a cross-platform messaging app. This antisocial behavior is absolutely crazy to me; maybe it's because my first experiences with IP messaging was Skype and not iMessage. My iMessage-only group chats are the vast minority; Facebook Messenger is where most live, then WhatsApp and some Slack/Discord.
iteria 3y ago
Videos. Every time I get a video from an iphone user it is trash quality. Other iphone users don't have this problem. It's just me on the android. I cannot seem to get any iphone user to understand linking out from whatever icloud or whatever, so whenever someone sends me a video they took, i basically don't get to see. I'm sure there are more, but this the one that actually makes me mad. From the iphone side, there has to be something, because my family keeps 2 group chats. One with android users and one without. Someone when using an iphone is annoying when group texting android users.
- mrkstu 3y ago
  To be fair, on this particular point, you aren't Apple's customer in this scenario. This is like complaining that Tesla has supercharger stations and your non-Tesla has a different charging connector, so your interactions with Supercharging stations is degraded. This really wouldn't be Tesla's problem. Apple supports the video standards that were available via MMS/SMS when iMessage rolled out, the higher res videos only available in the first place because Apple added it via iMessage. The newer 'standard' was a Google dominated way of trying to make inroads on Apple's superior implementation and in most of the world, Messages isn't even the top Messaging app. Now that Apple has announced support for RCS incoming, even including messaging in the suit doesn't make sense in the slightest.
  - Workaccount2 3y ago
    It remains to be seen how apple handles RCS. It's a pretty lax standard.
  - shkkmo 3y ago
    > The newer 'standard' was a Google dominated way of trying to make inroads on Apple's superior implementation and in most of the world, Messages isn't even the top Messaging app. The RCS standard was is just about as old as the iPhone and older than iMessage. Google began supporting and pushing the standard forward in a way that benefits everyone. Apple could have done the same, or made iMessage an open protocal or any of a number of things. Instead Apple has consistently chosen to go the anti-competitive route. > Apple's superior implementation It was 'superior' in some ways inferior in other ways, such as communicating with people without an iphone. iMessage isn't particularly better than any other messaging app, but the benefits of user lock-in, and being the default, replaceable sms app. These anti-competitive behaviors do clearly harm users. > Now that Apple has announced support for RCS incoming Perhaps once the support actually lands you'll have more of a point. However, I expect half-assed support and the bare minimum given Apple's previous reluctance.
harkinian 3y ago
Not mine cause we leave those people out. It's not Apple's fault that SMS sucks, and RCS adoption was very slow even on Android. Even with all Android phones, a group chat is a disaster unless they use FB Messenger or WhatsApp, which is in fact what most people use. Market working as intended there.
- magicalhippo 3y ago
  My new phone supports RCS, but I have several frinds who use dual SIM where only one of the devices support RCS. If I turn on RCS, only the device supporting RCS gets the message. Since it's a global switch, I've had to turn it off...
- MiddleEndian 3y ago
  My phone has RCS and sometimes my RCS messages just don't go through for hours. It will randomly switch between RCS and SMS/MMS. Honestly I find Android to iPhone texting to be more reliable than Android/Android texting nowadays because at least I know it will just be SMS/MMS. It's pretty awful lol. You can say "it's the carriers" but if you make something that relies on some other people who won't do it right, you haven't made something good, you've made something where you can blame other people for it not being good. FB Messenger is better and I try to use it over texting whenever I can (in part because I don't need my phone at all to use it)
  - harkinian 3y ago
    Yeah it's really hard to make something complex work with so many parties involved. 2-way SMS works well enough at least.
- rewgs 3y ago
  > Even with all Android phones, a group chat is a disaster unless they use FB Messenger or WhatsApp Excellent point. This is a large part of why I don't agree with iMessage "exclusion" somehow rising to the level of antitrust. iMessage doesn't make Android texting worse, it just reveals how bad it already is.
xen2xen1 3y ago
Becuase the green bubble makes the user move to an IPhone. Then the user can only use Apple Pay, not Google Pay or Samsung Pay, can only use Apple's Store, can only.. And from having teenagers, the green bubbles MATTER. very, very, very much.
- rewgs 3y ago
  Google Pay is absolutely available on iPhone.

vundercind 3y ago

What is this “having green bubbles” stuff? My messages are green on threads with Android users, to indicate the capabilities of the messages I am sending. Not theirs. I don’t even know how to tell who’s on what in a mixed-ecosystem thread.

airstrike 3y ago
messages from Android users show up as green to iOS users in group chats with mixed users, so everyone invariably makes fun of them / complains about "the person with the green bubble"
- vundercind 3y ago
  Do you have an iPhone? I do and my bubbles are green on group chats that involve Android users. Theirs look the same as everyone else’s.
  - airstrike 3y ago
    yes, and if we're in a chat with Bob Android, we will blame Bob for forcing all of us to be in this inferior chat that's green ewww or so the argument goes
  - harkinian 3y ago
    The bubbles are green if you talk to someone with an Android, and they're blue if you talk to someone with an iPhone. People simplify this by saying "you have blue bubbles."
- ssully 3y ago
  That isn’t how it works. Your own bubbles are green, all the “external” people in the chat have “regular” colors. Ex: I am using dark mode, so their bubbles show as dark for me, and mine are green.
- jimbokun 3y ago
  Green Bubble Bellied Sneetches
- vmladenov 3y ago
  Or you could show an ounce of maturity and just move to a cross-platform messaging app. This antisocial behavior is absolutely crazy to me; maybe it's because my first experiences with IP messaging was Skype and not iMessage. My iMessage-only group chats are the vast minority; Facebook Messenger is where most live, then WhatsApp and some Slack/Discord.

iteria 3y ago

Videos. Every time I get a video from an iphone user it is trash quality. Other iphone users don't have this problem. It's just me on the android. I cannot seem to get any iphone user to understand linking out from whatever icloud or whatever, so whenever someone sends me a video they took, i basically don't get to see. I'm sure there are more, but this the one that actually makes me mad. From the iphone side, there has to be something, because my family keeps 2 group chats. One with android users and one without. Someone when using an iphone is annoying when group texting android users.

mrkstu 3y ago
To be fair, on this particular point, you aren't Apple's customer in this scenario. This is like complaining that Tesla has supercharger stations and your non-Tesla has a different charging connector, so your interactions with Supercharging stations is degraded. This really wouldn't be Tesla's problem. Apple supports the video standards that were available via MMS/SMS when iMessage rolled out, the higher res videos only available in the first place because Apple added it via iMessage. The newer 'standard' was a Google dominated way of trying to make inroads on Apple's superior implementation and in most of the world, Messages isn't even the top Messaging app. Now that Apple has announced support for RCS incoming, even including messaging in the suit doesn't make sense in the slightest.
- Workaccount2 3y ago
  It remains to be seen how apple handles RCS. It's a pretty lax standard.
- shkkmo 3y ago
  > The newer 'standard' was a Google dominated way of trying to make inroads on Apple's superior implementation and in most of the world, Messages isn't even the top Messaging app. The RCS standard was is just about as old as the iPhone and older than iMessage. Google began supporting and pushing the standard forward in a way that benefits everyone. Apple could have done the same, or made iMessage an open protocal or any of a number of things. Instead Apple has consistently chosen to go the anti-competitive route. > Apple's superior implementation It was 'superior' in some ways inferior in other ways, such as communicating with people without an iphone. iMessage isn't particularly better than any other messaging app, but the benefits of user lock-in, and being the default, replaceable sms app. These anti-competitive behaviors do clearly harm users. > Now that Apple has announced support for RCS incoming Perhaps once the support actually lands you'll have more of a point. However, I expect half-assed support and the bare minimum given Apple's previous reluctance.

harkinian 3y ago

Not mine cause we leave those people out. It's not Apple's fault that SMS sucks, and RCS adoption was very slow even on Android. Even with all Android phones, a group chat is a disaster unless they use FB Messenger or WhatsApp, which is in fact what most people use. Market working as intended there.

magicalhippo 3y ago
My new phone supports RCS, but I have several frinds who use dual SIM where only one of the devices support RCS. If I turn on RCS, only the device supporting RCS gets the message. Since it's a global switch, I've had to turn it off...
MiddleEndian 3y ago
My phone has RCS and sometimes my RCS messages just don't go through for hours. It will randomly switch between RCS and SMS/MMS. Honestly I find Android to iPhone texting to be more reliable than Android/Android texting nowadays because at least I know it will just be SMS/MMS. It's pretty awful lol. You can say "it's the carriers" but if you make something that relies on some other people who won't do it right, you haven't made something good, you've made something where you can blame other people for it not being good. FB Messenger is better and I try to use it over texting whenever I can (in part because I don't need my phone at all to use it)
- harkinian 3y ago
  Yeah it's really hard to make something complex work with so many parties involved. 2-way SMS works well enough at least.
rewgs 3y ago
> Even with all Android phones, a group chat is a disaster unless they use FB Messenger or WhatsApp Excellent point. This is a large part of why I don't agree with iMessage "exclusion" somehow rising to the level of antitrust. iMessage doesn't make Android texting worse, it just reveals how bad it already is.

xen2xen1 3y ago

Becuase the green bubble makes the user move to an IPhone. Then the user can only use Apple Pay, not Google Pay or Samsung Pay, can only use Apple's Store, can only.. And from having teenagers, the green bubbles MATTER. very, very, very much.

rewgs 3y ago
Google Pay is absolutely available on iPhone.