4 ms·

Strage to see that as an issue; SMS is clearly an inferior protocol compared to iMessage and it's useful to know when messages have been downgraded.

by mopsi 3y ago

baq 3y ago
I agree. That's why I'm saying interop is not the root of the problem. Segregation of people based on whether they are using iMessage or something else combined with inability to install iMessage on non-Apple devices causes a social problem and a significant smartphone market pressure.
throw0101c 3y ago
> Strage to see that as an issue; SMS is clearly an inferior protocol compared to iMessage and it's useful to know when messages have been downgraded. Except that's not why the blue/green difference was created (at least historically). It dates back to the time where SMS messages cost money for each one sent (though plans often came with x free messages), so the green message was telling you it was (potentially) costing you money when sending/receiving messages. (US$ = greenbacks -> green = cost)
- danaris 3y ago
  That's also ahistorical. The green bubbles came first. iMessage didn't even exist for the first few years of the iPhone's life. All messages were green. Green could not have been chosen to indicate it cost money, because there was nothing to distinguish it from. Then, in 2011 (IIRC), iMessage was introduced, and the blue bubbles were to indicate both that it doesn't cost money, and that it supports several other capabilities (which have changed over the years—IIRC, it did not start out with end-to-end encryption, so the people boldly asserting that that's the primary reason for the distinction are also wrong).
- baq 3y ago
  The intent of the color doesn't matter. The actual effect of the color is what matters. Hopefully to the courts, anyway.
  - tensor 3y ago
    The actual effect is to know when my message is secure. No, RCS or another protocol does not mean it’s secure, even if they have some encryption. The other app can still eavesdrop after the message has reached the end. But perhaps the courts would want to weaken security. It’s definitely a thorn in their side.
    - baq 3y ago
      The actual effect is ostracism of green bubbles. You literally get kicked out of social circles and get peer-pressured into buying an iPhone.
      - ziddoap 3y ago
        Does this.... actually happen? To like, people over the age of 10? If so, I'd almost be thankful to Apple for letting me know who not to bother being friends with. If someone in my social circle ostracized someone else because of their phone, they (the person doing the ostracizing) wouldn't be in my social circle anymore.
        dvngnt_ 3y ago
        if you're not joking you can see countless examples on social media sites. it's not just friends it's family, coworkers. my friend group has a separate group chat for just android users and they get party invites after the main group does.
        ziddoap 3y ago
        I'm not joking, at all. I have never heard of this actually happening outside of when iPhone is a topic on HN. I don't really have other social media, so that might be a part of it. But in real life? Never once experienced this, or even know someone who has. my friend group has a separate group chat for just android users and they get party invites after the main group does. This makes no sense to me. You exclude some portion of your friends because your text bubble is green instead of blue? Why?
TurningCanadian 3y ago
iMessage is the monopoly part. They could make an App or even just an API available on other platforms but don't because they want the lock-in. > “The #1 most difficult [reason] to leave the Apple universe app is iMessage ... iMessage amounts to serious lock-in,” was how one unnamed former Apple employee put it in an email in 2016 > “iMessage on Android would simply serve to remove [an] obstacle to iPhone families giving their kids Android phones,” https://www.theverge.com/2021/4/9/22375128/apple-imessage-android-ecosystem-lock-in-epic-games-filings-app-store-dispute https://www.theverge.com/2021/4/9/22375128/apple-imessage-an... Not getting on board with RCS or any other way to improve SMS/MMS until they were (implicitly) forced was motivated by that desire to lock their users in to a messaging platform that only works on Apple devices.
fennecbutt 3y ago
Only because of Apple's refusal to implement RCS for feature parity. They're doing this on purpose, claiming anything else is just wool.

Strage to see that as an issue; SMS is clearly an inferior protocol compared to iMessage and it's useful to know when messages have been downgraded.

by mopsi 3y ago

Strage to see that as an issue; SMS is clearly an inferior protocol compared to iMessage and it's useful to know when messages have been downgraded.

baq 3y ago

I agree. That's why I'm saying interop is not the root of the problem. Segregation of people based on whether they are using iMessage or something else combined with inability to install iMessage on non-Apple devices causes a social problem and a significant smartphone market pressure.

throw0101c 3y ago

> Strage to see that as an issue; SMS is clearly an inferior protocol compared to iMessage and it's useful to know when messages have been downgraded. Except that's not why the blue/green difference was created (at least historically). It dates back to the time where SMS messages cost money for each one sent (though plans often came with x free messages), so the green message was telling you it was (potentially) costing you money when sending/receiving messages. (US$ = greenbacks -> green = cost)

danaris 3y ago
That's also ahistorical. The green bubbles came first. iMessage didn't even exist for the first few years of the iPhone's life. All messages were green. Green could not have been chosen to indicate it cost money, because there was nothing to distinguish it from. Then, in 2011 (IIRC), iMessage was introduced, and the blue bubbles were to indicate both that it doesn't cost money, and that it supports several other capabilities (which have changed over the years—IIRC, it did not start out with end-to-end encryption, so the people boldly asserting that that's the primary reason for the distinction are also wrong).
baq 3y ago
The intent of the color doesn't matter. The actual effect of the color is what matters. Hopefully to the courts, anyway.
- tensor 3y ago
  The actual effect is to know when my message is secure. No, RCS or another protocol does not mean it’s secure, even if they have some encryption. The other app can still eavesdrop after the message has reached the end. But perhaps the courts would want to weaken security. It’s definitely a thorn in their side.
  - baq 3y ago
    The actual effect is ostracism of green bubbles. You literally get kicked out of social circles and get peer-pressured into buying an iPhone.
    - ziddoap 3y ago
      Does this.... actually happen? To like, people over the age of 10? If so, I'd almost be thankful to Apple for letting me know who not to bother being friends with. If someone in my social circle ostracized someone else because of their phone, they (the person doing the ostracizing) wouldn't be in my social circle anymore.
      - dvngnt_ 3y ago
        if you're not joking you can see countless examples on social media sites. it's not just friends it's family, coworkers. my friend group has a separate group chat for just android users and they get party invites after the main group does.
        ziddoap 3y ago
        I'm not joking, at all. I have never heard of this actually happening outside of when iPhone is a topic on HN. I don't really have other social media, so that might be a part of it. But in real life? Never once experienced this, or even know someone who has. my friend group has a separate group chat for just android users and they get party invites after the main group does. This makes no sense to me. You exclude some portion of your friends because your text bubble is green instead of blue? Why?

TurningCanadian 3y ago

iMessage is the monopoly part. They could make an App or even just an API available on other platforms but don't because they want the lock-in. > “The #1 most difficult [reason] to leave the Apple universe app is iMessage ... iMessage amounts to serious lock-in,” was how one unnamed former Apple employee put it in an email in 2016 > “iMessage on Android would simply serve to remove [an] obstacle to iPhone families giving their kids Android phones,” https://www.theverge.com/2021/4/9/22375128/apple-imessage-android-ecosystem-lock-in-epic-games-filings-app-store-dispute https://www.theverge.com/2021/4/9/22375128/apple-imessage-an... Not getting on board with RCS or any other way to improve SMS/MMS until they were (implicitly) forced was motivated by that desire to lock their users in to a messaging platform that only works on Apple devices.

fennecbutt 3y ago

Only because of Apple's refusal to implement RCS for feature parity. They're doing this on purpose, claiming anything else is just wool.